Kernel 5.15 : ntfs3 vs ntfs-3g

Daedra · 11-09-2021, 06:46 PM

I am still cautiously using ntfs3. So far no problems, but your data loss concerns me. It does seem junctions are currently broken with ntfs3. See here

burdi01 · 11-12-2021, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burdi01

I do not "trust" my systems any more. So I am restoring my last backup before kernel 5.15/ntfs3 right now -- which means reapplying three weeks of amendments. For the time being I will then stay with ntfs-3g ...

Just completed reapplying these three weeks of amendments. My systems feel stable (no crashes, no surprises) again.

babam · 11-12-2021, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burdi01

Just completed reapplying these three weeks of amendments. My systems feel stable (no crashes, no surprises) again.

Is ntfs3 dangerous?

Paulo2 · 11-12-2021, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babam

Is ntfs3 dangerous?

I was using the ntfs3 driver for two weeks and didn't see anything wrong,
but I'm concerned with burdi01 report and Daedra's post.
From the last post over there

Quote:

Maybe somebody else will also report bugs here. We really wan't them now. I'm also quite certain there will be many after 5.15 will be released. Hopefully no corruption bugs.

So I reverted my main ntfs hard drive (with all my music, rare bootlegs videos and Steam games) to ntfs-3g,
and I'm mounting a new ntfs partition with ntfs3 to test it and see if there is some corruption.

I'm running ntfs-3g for almost ten years now and can't remember any read/write catastrophic failure.
Probably Paragon's ntfs3 is also reliable since it is part of the kernel now,
yet there are reports like the ones in this thread

burdi01 · 11-13-2021, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babam

Is ntfs3 dangerous?

For sure it will not shoot you.

What I did was reporting on problems I had on my for years dependable Slackware instances. As they seem to be related to corruptions on disk the most probable culprit to me is the ntfs3 driver. Or the culprit is somewhere else in the 5.15 kernel -- but I cannot even remember having problems with a new kernel ...

Some preliminary googling for others having problems with the kernel 5.15/ntfs3 tandem did not give any pertinent hits as of yet. Keeping an eye on things ...

allend · 11-15-2021, 08:16 AM

Just came across this.
On my SSD drive, if I mount NTFS partitions with type=ntfs3, then 'fstrim -av' reports "fstrim: <mountpoint>: the discard operation is not supported". If I mount NTFS partitions with type=ntfs-3g, then the NTFS partitions are trimmed.
I like the type=ntfs3 as it seems snappier, but with this and the lack of support for links (as reported @Daedra). it still feels somewhat alpha in status.

Paulo2 · 11-17-2021, 12:06 PM

I think ntfs3 is unstable.

I selected some files from a .rar archive in ark and drag-and-drop over Dolphin panel in a ntfs partition mounted with ntfs3.

This is the result after mounting that partition with ntfs-3g,
since with ntfs3 that ls command was taking too long (probably would never show any output).

Other files and directories are OK without any corruption, exception for those two links that now are broken.
Before they were working.

Code:

root@paulobash~# ls -l /mnt/hd/
total 84
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    34 nov 15 12:55 Haxial -> unsupported\ reparse\ tag\ 0xa000000c
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    34 nov 15 12:56 NASA -> unsupported\ reparse\ tag\ 0xa000000c
drwxrwxrwx 1 root root  4096 nov 17 14:46 Nova\ pasta\ (1)

Code:

root@paulobash~# LANG=C ls -l /mnt/hd/Nova\ pasta\ \(1\)/1981\ Robert\ Plant\ Cozy\ Powell\ Rockfield\ Studios/
/bin/ls: reading directory '/mnt/hd/Nova pasta (1)/1981 Robert Plant Cozy Powell Rockfield Studios/': Input/output error
total 0

shmu26 · 12-27-2021, 11:23 AM

Can you enable ntfs3 on kernel 5.15.0 or do you need 5.15.2 and up?
Okay, I now see that it depends where you get your kernel. For Manjaro you need .2 and up, but for liqorix .0 is good.

Daedra · 05-19-2022, 06:49 PM

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I have been running the paragon ntfs driver since 15.0 was released. I have had little quirks here and there that I thought were related to my drive maybe going out, but it has started to happen on my new drive too. For instance I would get I/O errors during torrenting occasionally that would force me to restart the torrent. For now I am going back to ntfs-3g, especially since I read this a few weeks back.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...river-2022-Sad

rkelsen · 05-19-2022, 06:55 PM

Yeah, it's not looking good for the Paragon driver at this point. El Reg has more info: https://www.theregister.com/2022/04/...x_kernel_ntfs/

Shame, because it showed so much promise.

elcore · 05-20-2022, 06:23 AM

Tested 1,4G file from ext4 > ntfs3, 70 MB/s from start to finish.
Tested 1,4G file from ext4 > ntfs-3g 70 MB/s from start but at some point drops heavily to 3,5 MB/s.

From what I've read, ntfs3 was not maintained much after it was included.
Not that it matters much for me, I just test the thing sometimes, not using ntfs for anything critical.

zeebra · 05-20-2022, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelsen

I'm happy to finally have proper kernel level NTFS support... Something Linux has never had.

Yeah, ntfs-3g is OLD! It's been around forever and done the job, I'm quite surprised there has been a new development in this area at all. I don't use NTFS or any Windows stuff, but it sounds like good news to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelsen

Yeah, it's not looking good for the Paragon driver at this point. El Reg has more info: https://www.theregister.com/2022/04/...x_kernel_ntfs/

Shame, because it showed so much promise.

Hmm.. Perhaps 3 and -3g will be merged at some point?

I remember Paragon from about 15 or so years ago when I still had some Windows multiboot stuff, and it was a well functioning and very useful tool.

adcdam · 05-20-2022, 08:27 AM

Torvals said this about the Paragon driver:

Quote:

If you are willing to maintain it (and maybe find other like-minded people to help you), I think that would certainly be a thing to try.

And if we can find *nobody* that ends up caring and maintaining, then I guess we should remove it, rather than end up with *two* effectively unmaintained copies of NTFS drivers.

Not that two unmaintained filesystems are much worse than one :-p

rkelsen · 05-20-2022, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeebra

Yeah, ntfs-3g is OLD!

More importantly, it's a filesystem in user space, not kernel space... But as you say it works and is maintained so we have no choice right now.

Interesting how the worm turns in 6 months. It's a bit sad, but what can you do? I try not to write to NTFS from Linux... But sometimes it can't be avoided.

Nobody seems bothered by the fact that the Paragon developer has disappeared?

elcore · 05-21-2022, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkelsen

Nobody seems bothered by the fact that the Paragon developer has disappeared?

Probably had reasons.. but pointless to discuss unknown variables.

Anyway, from the results of my test, the ntfs3 driver performs great.
Only thing with comparable performance that I found was vmware ntfs > ntfs.
Anything ext* > ntfs-3g is usually very slow, also ntfs-3g > ext4 seems slower than expected.

I'd best not comment on ntfs3 stability since I've had no issues, but I've read in few places that it's not so good.