I will go so far and say that in order to be programming, it has to have feature common to all programming: flow control and data types. HTML and XML have neither. Everything else so far has that. Now this is only for programming languages, not programming in general, there IS a difference between programming languages and programming *things* - HTML would be programming something to do soimething whilst C would be a set of instructions for creating something.

PS - last friggin post, this thread should be shut down, it about had it.

But you had to bring in XML...

While using Forms in HTML could give you some level of flow control, the
only real way to "program" rather than mark-up in HTML is to use
embedded scripting or external programming.

XML of course is purely mark-up, and should resist the push of vendors
and other interested (?) parties to do jobs that it is not suited to. All of
the programming for XML should definitely be external (whether that
means in the DTD, schema, XSL, or parser)

p.s.s. - #if -e thread then shutdown -thread 0 fi

fyi - it's pps not pss - post post script for future reference

For this thread I think that a postscript script is more appropriate...
#do reply until end od

hmmm, well i'd have to say teh Yays have it.

Programming is manipulating any resource on your computer to do something it was not already specificly designed to do by your default operating system installation. Even clicking on certain options in a GUI frame that will manipulate your program in a certain way can be considered "programming."

A program can be very easy or extremely difficult to create. Even if someone puts one line into a bash script (why? I don't know, but you can do what you like--it's your system!) or millions of lines into a c source file for a kernel, it's still programming. Occasionally at work, I will write very small batch files to do things like checking URL's. They may be small (5 lines at most), but they save a lot of time especially when you glue several of them together.

When someone says scripting is not 'programming' they're generally speaking from a subjective point of view (based on their own experiences). To a programmer who writes gui's and compiles them into binaries, they may say that scripting is not programming. To them, it's not. However, with the advancement of many high-level scripting languages, it is very common to see small gui apps created with scripting languages (Tcl/Tk, Tkinter, Perl-GTK, PyQt etc) these days. Why do things the hard way if you don't have to -- unless you just enjoy the mental exercise from writing in Assembly or C code.

So, if someone is trying to rain on your parade about your favorite programming language or your own programming methodology don't let them spoil your fun.

Cheers