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Old 01-29-2017, 07:39 AM   #6166
grumpyskeptic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippled View Post
I understand and heard it all before. What you call the "many of the great strengths of Linux" is actually the biggest weakness of Linux. The reason is people who use Windows or MAC don't use the command line to install a program or anything else these days....
I agree with Crippled, and I am surprised he has been allowed to say it.

Linux is rather like a steam engine such as the Mallard, while Windows is like a Bugatti Veyron. Many people are fanatical steam-engine enthusiasts, and indeed the Mallard is a fine machine. But it lacks ease of use, comfort, and the crucial ability to steer around corners.

"Mallard is not Veyron" obviously. Being different is not always better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_C...4_4468_Mallard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron
 
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Old 01-29-2017, 07:56 AM   #6167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
I agree with Crippled, and I am surprised he has been allowed to say it.

Linux is rather like a steam engine such as the Mallard, while Windows is like a Bugatti Veyron. Many people are fanatical steam-engine enthusiasts, and indeed the Mallard is a fine machine. But it lacks ease of use, comfort, and the crucial ability to steer around corners.

"Mallard is not Veyron" obviously. Being different is not always better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_C...4_4468_Mallard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron
That's amusing but not really accurate. As I mentioned Mac OS is so locked down that one has absolutely no choice over even the placement of the task bar. If that's what a person wants that is their choice and that's fine. If, however, they was something a little more configurable then, yes, they need to put a little more effort in.
For Linux to get rid of the command line completely it would have to become the same as Windows or Mac OS -- just look at Ubuntu for a glimpse into that world. I, for one, hope that Linux never becomes something that horrific.
 
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:45 AM   #6168
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Recently, Microsoft and Mozilla stated that anti-virus software interferes with the security functions built into their respective software. And most of all, the AV software is what gets hacked moreso than the actual operating systems. With new technology, especially built-in sandboxing, the APIs from the Antivirus software lead to a more insecure and much much slower operation.

Firefox (Mozilla) stated that the only good known AV software for Windows is Defender.

Selinux or equivalent does a great job of protecting Linux
 
Old 01-29-2017, 03:50 PM   #6169
WaterCatapult
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As a gamer myself, I'd of course like to see a lot more games being ported.

Also nVidia Experience and Microsoft Office would really neat regardless what everyone says, those two things are really great and a lot more common in latter case than LO or OoO.

Most likely nothing more than dreams but something that I'd really like to see is something like RDP on Linux that actually works without messing around with config files or settings.
I just tried to access my KDE desktop (as in desktop computer) from my laptop using the build in VNC server and it lagged like crazy although being connected via ethernet cables.

Possibly things change by time but for not now, that's for sure.
 
Old 01-30-2017, 04:46 AM   #6170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterCatapult View Post
As a gamer myself, I'd of course like to see a lot more games being ported.

Also nVidia Experience and Microsoft Office would really neat regardless what everyone says, those two things are really great and a lot more common in latter case than LO or OoO.

Most likely nothing more than dreams but something that I'd really like to see is something like RDP on Linux that actually works without messing around with config files or settings.
I just tried to access my KDE desktop (as in desktop computer) from my laptop using the build in VNC server and it lagged like crazy although being connected via ethernet cables.

Possibly things change by time but for not now, that's for sure.
The best cross platform RDP type program that I have used is TeamViewer. I have no idea if it is Open or Closed Source, though I suspect it is the latter.
 
Old 01-30-2017, 05:56 AM   #6171
Crippled
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
That's amusing but not really accurate. As I mentioned Mac OS is so locked down that one has absolutely no choice over even the placement of the task bar. If that's what a person wants that is their choice and that's fine. If, however, they was something a little more configurable then, yes, they need to put a little more effort in.
For Linux to get rid of the command line completely it would have to become the same as Windows or Mac OS -- just look at Ubuntu for a glimpse into that world. I, for one, hope that Linux never becomes something that horrific.
I hope it comes to that because then the command line would be an option but not a requirement just like with Windows and MAC. Without requiring the use of the command line you can still move the task bar where ever you want and theme everything the way you want it. MX-16 has proven this. This way you have choice.
 
Old 01-30-2017, 06:06 AM   #6172
Crippled
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garthhh View Post
you don't have to memorize terminal commands copy n paste is your friend,
with any OS some fussing around may be required to get some programs working, certainly not unique to linux

mx looks interesting debian based, community developed, that's not downstream of ubuntu
virtual machine here I come

you should rethink your signature, which will not make the smart people who can help you feel helpful...

did you try to resolve your problem through the mx16 forum?

you might try a more user friendly distro which has some security features built in
https://www.mageia.org/en/5/
Thank you for understanding and your advice. I tried resolving it on the MX-16 forum. I had to use the terminal to install Sophos. It said it was installed successfully but wouldn't run. I removed Sophos and I am not going to waste my time with it.
 
Old 01-30-2017, 08:20 AM   #6173
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexpaton View Post
The best cross platform RDP type program that I have used is TeamViewer. I have no idea if it is Open or Closed Source, though I suspect it is the latter.
Not open source ... it's add-ware.

Another I actually like more is NoMachine ... especially as you don't even need an internet connection to establish a local LAN screen share. But what truly blew me over is the speed and smoothness the NX protocol causes. It's to the point where I can play a 3d shooter game at HD res across a WiFi connection and not realize that it's streaming the desktop, try that with TV/VNC/RDP. Not to mention, it's even easier to setup than TV, install the program, it runs in the background as a server. Default setup is to have manual acceptance of connections, change to password / kerberos / etc. If you wish to connect somewhere click its icon (in the taskbar or start from menu) and it shows you all the other computers running this in the local LAN IP range. Enter password / set other computer to accept (your choice of security) and you're good to go - no need to remember any long string or copy/paste from some login site.

And of course, it's already available for nearly anything ... Linux, Windows, OSX, iOS, Android, etc. Just not open source though, still add-ware / fremium unless you buy a license.

Last edited by irneb; 01-30-2017 at 08:22 AM.
 
Old 01-31-2017, 01:29 AM   #6174
WaterCatapult
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexpaton View Post
The best cross platform RDP type program that I have used is TeamViewer. I have no idea if it is Open or Closed Source, though I suspect it is the latter.
It's super easy to use and responsibly fast, yes.
The company I'm working at also uses it to access the clients when needed but I really don't like the idea of having such programs sending my data over US servers.

Call me paranoid but whenever I can keep something on European servers, I'll do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irneb View Post
Not open source ... it's add-ware.

Another I actually like more is NoMachine ... especially as you don't even need an internet connection to establish a local LAN screen share. But what truly blew me over is the speed and smoothness the NX protocol causes. It's to the point where I can play a 3d shooter game at HD res across a WiFi connection and not realize that it's streaming the desktop, try that with TV/VNC/RDP. Not to mention, it's even easier to setup than TV, install the program, it runs in the background as a server. Default setup is to have manual acceptance of connections, change to password / kerberos / etc. If you wish to connect somewhere click its icon (in the taskbar or start from menu) and it shows you all the other computers running this in the local LAN IP range. Enter password / set other computer to accept (your choice of security) and you're good to go - no need to remember any long string or copy/paste from some login site.

And of course, it's already available for nearly anything ... Linux, Windows, OSX, iOS, Android, etc. Just not open source though, still add-ware / fremium unless you buy a license.
Mhm... sounds interesting though.
How much of Freemium is to expect in the package?
 
Old 02-01-2017, 12:22 AM   #6175
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterCatapult View Post
Mhm... sounds interesting though.
How much of Freemium is to expect in the package?
W̶e̶l̶l̶,̶ ̶I̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶y̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶d̶v̶e̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶t̶u̶f̶f̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶P̶r̶o̶/̶E̶n̶t̶e̶r̶p̶r̶i̶s̶e̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶i̶o̶n̶s̶.̶ ̶U̶s̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶t̶u̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶ ̶s̶c̶r̶o̶l̶l̶,̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶s̶p̶l̶a̶s̶h̶ ̶s̶c̶r̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶s̶.̶
Actually, just tried it again - there's no adds whatsoever in the free version, must have gotten confused with something else. On their site they seem to explain why they do this: https://www.nomachine.com/everybody ... read the last two portions regarding Price / Ads not included.

The main difference between its "free" version and the pro is that you're only allowed one connection to any one machine at any one time, though you're allowed to connect to as many separate machines at once as you'd like. The pro allows multiple connections to the same machine at once - i.e. allowing someone to control the machine while multiple others watch. For personal use I cannot see the benefit of going for the pro version.

The enterprise version handles a server based idea where you log into some sort of VPN (either your own one, or theirs - which turns it into a TV-competitor) such that it's very easy to even use it across the internet from another country. Else you need to find out the IP address of the machine you want to link to (i.e. you need some dynamic IP mapping service like NoIP to make it less cumbersome), then you could use either Free/Pro for similar.

Last edited by irneb; 02-01-2017 at 12:41 AM.
 
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:55 AM   #6176
grumpyskeptic
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Not something that is a port, but a simple GUI program which consisted of a large number of buttons each of which had a brief explanation of what it did, and each of which issued a different command string into the terminal, would be very useful.

A more advanced version would allow you to make a choice or choices from menus, and take you down a hierarchy of possible commands.

If the program parsed a text file which contained all the required information, then it would be easy to update revise and expand the text file as required.
 
Old 02-15-2017, 04:23 AM   #6177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
Not something that is a port, but a simple GUI program which consisted of a large number of buttons each of which had a brief explanation of what it did, and each of which issued a different command string into the terminal, would be very useful.

A more advanced version would allow you to make a choice or choices from menus, and take you down a hierarchy of possible commands.

If the program parsed a text file which contained all the required information, then it would be easy to update revise and expand the text file as required.
I thought about something like that myself, though it would be very difficult to do with all the different versions of programs on different versions of linux. What I was after was something which could save me trawling through Man pages to find the right switches. I am happy to learn terminal commands for things I do regularly, but it's those programs that you only occasionally use that can be a real pain.
 
Old 02-18-2017, 04:15 AM   #6178
grumpyskeptic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexpaton View Post
I thought about something like that myself, though it would be very difficult to do with all the different versions of programs on different versions of linux. What I was after was something which could save me trawling through Man pages to find the right switches. I am happy to learn terminal commands for things I do regularly, but it's those programs that you only occasionally use that can be a real pain.
Even if it required a different parameters file for each variant of Linux, it would be well worth doing because it could make Linux mostly GUI like Windows, and not being GUI is what puts people off from using Linux.

The language Rebol seems ideal for parsing a parameters file since it can easily provide the menus, buttons, slots, and so on. According to Wikipedia there is also a later derivative of Rebol called Red.
 
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:15 AM   #6179
Mr. Macintosh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
Even if it required a different parameters file for each variant of Linux, it would be well worth doing because it could make Linux mostly GUI like Windows, and not being GUI is what puts people off from using Linux.

The language Rebol seems ideal for parsing a parameters file since it can easily provide the menus, buttons, slots, and so on. According to Wikipedia there is also a later derivative of Rebol called Red.
You’re 100% right! There’s a lot of stuff in Linux that’s CLI-only, which is very off-putting for a lot of people. And yeah, there are a lot of commands and switches that you might not know - even for us techies, Linux can be tough. It’s that CLI-only stuff that makes people think Linux is for people who want to use their computers the hard way. Linux probably won’t break the 5% mark until more stuff can be done in a GUI. I actually made a list of possible Linux improvements, and making more CLI stuff accessible from a GUI is on my list.
 
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:22 AM   #6180
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I really don't see how having buttons to click instead of things to type and be autocompleted would "make Linux easier", or whatever. I would say anyone put off by the fact that Linux requires too much to be done on the command line hasn't installed Windows from scratch very often either -- anyone not comfortable spending a little time typing a few commands to get an OS installed ought not really to be installing an OS.
Day-to-day there's no reason to have to use the command line unless you choose to and there hasn't been for a decade or so.
A few years back a friend (whom I introduced to Linux) installed Linux for another friend to replace the defunct XP. That friend has never once needed to use the command line or ask for any help. Things just work.

Just what is it people are doing out there that they are forced to use the command line to use their computers every day?
 
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