Well I'm crying "Uncle". Off to find a different distro. 10 hours work is a bit much (at least considering I'm a newbie, and could get Ubuntu up and running in maybe 30 minutes?)

I did read the Slackware howto, though not the others. Maybe in the morning I can look at this fresh. If I am up to more hours of work, I will read the other documents you linked.

At any rate, all the help through the day was much appreciated.

mhg:
If possible, get the dvd and do a full install using the default hugesmp on an ext3 partition.
A full install is well over 4 GBs. I don't think you were playing with a full deck (so to speak) with just the first 3 CDs.
Slack is one of the quickest distros to get rolling out of all of them.
After the install:
login as root.
then run:
xorgsetup
adduser
logout
login as user
startx
then go to /etc/inittab & change run level from 3 to 4.
then
shutdown -r now
then the system will reboot in to a GUI login window an yer good to go.


DON'T GIVE UP!!

You do get a full install from the first 3 CDs.
And once more:
DON'T GIVE UP!!!
This is how I did it, perhaps not the only way or best way - but it works.
XP was already installed. I installed Slack 12.1. Then I installed Ubuntu 8.04, which doesn't offer a choice of where to put GRUB, so it went in the MBR - wiping out lilo. Then I booted into Slack, and reran lilo - wiping out GRUB. Using the SuperGrub live CD, I installed GRUB to Ubuntu's root, then edited lilo.conf as mentioned in my previous post. I did it this way because I'm more likely to want to get rid of Ubuntu than Slackware.

Ubuntu does give you the option to install GRUB on the root partition. If I remember correctly there is a little box in the lower right hand corner ("Advanced") that you click on and then enter the partition (whatever device file corresponds to the / partition) you want to install it on.

Personally, my recommendation to anyone new to Slackware is to first print a copy of the SlackBook (or have an e-copy handy on another computer). Use that to familiarize yourself with Linux and Slackware commands. The docs on the Slackware cd are a must read as well (as previously mentioned).

Yes, it takes time starting out, but anything worthwhile will take some time.

Once you do know what you are doing you will probably find the GUI installers of distros like Ubuntu slow and annoying. Maybe not...everyone is different.

I noticed and used the Advanced button (no, it was a choice, choose No to installing in the MBR - didn't use the graphic install) on Debian, but must have missed it on Ubuntu.

This morning I wiped my partitions again. Then istalled Debian, booted to it. Then installed Mandriva 2009.0. Both installations went very well, and were quite easy, with the edge going to Mandriva. I can boot to XP, Debian, or Mandriva. Did not have to do any special configuration.

Nothing against Slackware, but I am relieved to find out I can indeed install a distro with no problems (didn't read any instructions this time either, so did not go in to it any better prepared).

Also think it will be fun to learn about KDE desktop.

Thanks for all the help here.

Yeah but...... Now you'll just have to come back to us later to find out what your missing. ... We'll still be here. :-)
You can install KDE in Debian from the "synaptic package manager".
Or:
apt-get update
apt-get install kde

Enjoy Mandriva. I sense that you have a fundamental lack of understanding of the PURPOSE of Slackware. You can't attempt a Slackware install without reading anything and expect it to work 100%. With other hand-holding distros, this may be possible -- but that just lets the ignorance level on the part of the user rise ever so higher. If you don't want to learn to set up a system beyond pointing and clicking, that's fine. However, if you DO want to try Slackware, you have to read. You should have researched a bit more before trying Slackware, in my opinion -- it looks like it's not the distro for you. Before installing Slackware (11.0 -- the first Linux distro I tried), I read up on how to use the Linux CLI (this is before I ever had a running system) and found a full installation guide (with pictures) explaining how to install Slackware 11.0. I didn't have a single problem, literally. I read, and the install was successful. And I've been using Slackware ever since (though I have tried other distros on another PC and in VirtualBox). Slackware is one of the simplest distros out there in terms of organization and transparency. If you know what you are doing, very little can go wrong. However, it takes a desire to learn and the willingness to read in order to get it up and running and turn it into a usable system. It is not very rewarding to spend time helping someone only to find out they give up and switch to another distro (I am not speaking for myself here -- I barely posted in this thread).

Good luck with your future endeavours.

I am interested to know what a person is missing when they use a simple installer (like Ubuntu). And I am not trying to sound sarcastic. Is your point that a person is forced to learn more about their O/S when using an installer such as the Slackware? Or is your point that an O/S (distro) will work better/be more stable if you have to go through the many steps required for something like Slackware?

I understand from being on the forums here before, that there are old hands that seem to really detest the fact that Linux is being made more "newbie friendly". I gather, in some cases anyway, that folks just don't think people should use Linux until, or unless, they get a thorough understanding of CLI. Of course not everyone feels that way, Ubuntu seems to be a prime example of people wanting to develop a distro that is easier for new people to get an introduction to Linux.

My main question still is, what is gained from an installation process like what is required of Slackware, compared to one on the order of the Mandriva installation process?

I will sincerely apologize if I have wasting folks time here. I hope someday I am able to give back some of what I have taken over the years (not just here at LQ.org). One of the best things about Linux is the community.

LOL. Trust me slackass, I do appreciate that! And I hope I will find the time to have a look at Slackware still.

I'm not sure what went wrong this time, but better luck next time you try Slackware (you will, sooner or later).

I am not so sure it is the necessarily the installation aspect, but with Slackware you really learn how linux operates. Granted every distro is slightly different (some more than others), but once you can troubleshoot slackware you can pretty much troubleshoot any linux distro out there.

But I am glad you got it working, and I would suggest looking at virtualbox (virtualmachine software), and giving other distros a try (including slackware ).

I have no problem with Linux becoming 'newbie friendly'. In fact, I think it's a great thing. Linux will NEVER become popular if all installers are like Slackware's. However, I don't think Slackware's installer is difficult in any way, shape or form. It tells you exactly what to do, while still allowing extreme flexibility. You have to manually partition your drives. An extra step to some just means that I have exactly the setup that I want. Ubuntu and other distros DO allow you to make custom partition layouts, just as easily. It's just not the default option. However, cfdisk is really easy to use, and therefore I don't see one option as better than the other -- you're just a little lower-level when using Slackware's installer.

I can't think of any difficult steps during Slackware's install process. It literally tells you everything you need to do. It has a full install (default) to make it easy to get started, or you can decide exactly which packages you need. I honestly don't think Slackware's installer is any more difficult than the others, and the additional information you need to know compared to Ubuntu's is very minimal. The only possible stumbling block is the LILO installation when you have complex setups -- in which case, the advanced setup in liloconfig is the best option (and if that fails, manually edit lilo.conf and run lilo). If you're using GRUB, there will of course be more difficulty, since GRUB is not the default in Slackware (and if you're using another distro's GRUB, the problem can be compounded if you're using an ext2/ext3 filesystem with the default 256-byte inode size).

Overall, the installer is nice and simple and I can install Slackware in much less time than Ubuntu, for example (maybe because I know what I'm doing by now). However, it's not the installer that I like about Slackware -- it's the system. It's a lean, stable distro that keeps everything very neat and tidy. The init scripts are very easy to work with (whereas the same cannot necessarily be said about other distros using the SysV init scripts).

As for learning the CLI, I don't think everyone needs to learn it to use Linux. HOWEVER, Slackware is a CLI-centric distro. Unless you want to screw something up, you really should use the CLI to setup/configure Slackware. For example, if you try to set networking up using KDE, you'll probably screw something up (since the graphical networking utilities don't follow the 'Slackware way' of doing things). If you try to set the time using KDE's clock applet, you could screw up the permissions on /etc/localtime (I know this from experience). If you do want to use Slackware, you do need to use the CLI sometimes. Some may see this as a bad thing. I see it as a good thing (for me personally -- not everyone). Using Slackware has revolutionized my computer habits. In Windows, I only used DOS if I had to (which was more frequently than your average Joe, I guess) -- but I hated it. However, the Linux CLI is a dream to use, in my opinion, and so I find it easier to do a lot of tasks using a terminal than graphical tools. I am also a fan of automation of medial tasks, so the CLI is optimal for me.

Bottom line: If you don't like Slackware, you don't like Slackware. That's fine. There are tons of other distros to choose from. I never said in my other post that I thought you were inferior for not wanting to use the CLI or that everyone else should use the CLI. I said that Slackware basically demands using the CLI once in a while. Thus, if you want to use Slackware, you should learn about the CLI. I'm a bit of a computer nerd, so I enjoyed learning about the CLI, and I enjoy using Slackware and learning about computers. I built my PC from scratch (and learned a lot about computers in the process), and installed and customized Slackware, again while learning a lot in the process. If you don't want to learn about the details of the Linux OS, that's great. But maybe Slackware isn't for you.

[/essay]

Well I don't know if slackware is for me or not, as I never got a look at it.

Maybe I should re-phrase. The installer was only slightly more complex than others. My complaint (as it were) was the installation. So if I used the term installer, I should have said the "installation" was difficult. I was never able to boot to slackware, hence my calling the installation difficult. And as newbie, all I can do is compare it to my other experiences, all of which were successful.

Now I'm getting myself all jazzed to try the installation again! But then I will be back to working on the GRUB file again, which I admit I do not look forward to.

As an aside, one of the reasons I wanted to try slackware was the way users seemed to be so loyal to it. That can't be a bad thing.

If you want to try Slackware again, do it the easy way. Install LILO to the superblock of your Slackware root partition and just chainload it from Ubuntu's GRUB. Nothing can go wrong with this approach. During the installer, choose to install LILO to the superblock instead of the MBR. Then, in Ubuntu's menu.lst, add this:
Note that I do not use GRUB, so that may not be fully correct -- search the forums for more help (or see `man grub` or `man menu.lst` if it exists, or search the web).