[SOLVED] Slackware's pkgtools is horrifically archaic, or why dependency checking shouldn't be considered to be taboo anymore
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I'll take your word for it. I now have to update my little rule...there 4 types of people on LQ: the ignorers, the believers, the derailers, and the counters!
sorry missed another type... and in honour of 'rkelsen' we now have 5 types on LQ: the ignorers, the believers, the derailers, the counters, and the cantankerous.
Before I get thrown out of LQ forum, going back to the 'ignorers'.
I blame my troublesome attitude on lockdown blues
@LuckyCyborg, @bassmadrigal - please stop. There is no winner in "Last Word is Mine" game. You are killing this thread.
Edit: There are interesting posts on subject in this thread. Just keep it this way.
This thread is already a mess. There was no chance it was going to stay on topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg
So, start/stop/restart are BSDismes ?
Ugh, I never said I was an expert and I did say "as far as I can tell". Apparently I'm incorrect on that assumption as well.
However, I simply refer to the source of the Slackware website stating that Slackware uses the BSD style file layout. Have your battle about that somewhere else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg
No matter how I look to those Slackware init scripts, they are just a "simplified" variant of the SysV init scripts.
Well, you didn't create Slackware's init and Pat did. So, if he says they're BSD inspired, I think I'll trust him over what you can see in the scripts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg
In fact, probably someone can grab the /etc/rc.d/rc.httpd and put in /etc/rc.d/init.d/httpd and after populating the symlinks according with the runlevels, I bet that we can launch the Apache in the SysV init style, with no changes on the script code.
Slackware is compatible with SysV, so that's not that surprising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter
Edit: People referring to Salix should understand that Salix is on top of stable release. Now Salix is stuck at 14.2. Besides Salix is using its own binaries repository and app called Sourcery for slackbuilds - to automate build from salckbuilds scripts.
It doesn't negate the fact that OP is asking for something that exists. Once 15.0 is released, I imagine Salix will release their 15.0 version with everything that OP is asking for. Also 14.2 still works great for people unless you have newer hardware or require newer libraries for software (which the latter I haven't ran into too many issues with).
Also, SBo is only tested against the latest stable release, so unless someone is tracking a specific software, they probably aren't going to know that it's potentially outdated and limited on version because of the stable release. But, of the software I'm maintaining SlackBuilds on SBo for, there's only 3 that are not at their latest version because of 14.2. Two are gstreamer plugins, which require being matched to the installed version. The other is a video editor that is also limited due to gstreamer. Every other program I maintain (I maintain 41 packages on SBo) is either at its latest version or is not so I don't add new dependencies (I think most or all was to prevent adding qt5 as a dependency, since I know it is not the easiest to build -- but I'm leaning towards upgrading them now that -current included it... I just gotta get a clean build VM up and running to verify the new dependencies are properly listed).
Yeah, I hear you! I've spent a lot of time tinkering with operating systems during the lockdown, it's my software therapy. I think a lot of us are feeling out of sorts, I know I am.
Slackware is just fine as it is. There is a huge selection of distros out there to choose from.
Slackware's pkgtools is, to be quite frank, horribly archaic; it doesn't have any sort of dependency checking...
At last, at last!
I can finally answer, without any sarcasm:
It's a feature, not a bug.
If you don't like it, you can either use something like slapt-get or try another distro. Not telling you to get off my lawn, just that I don't see it as a problem; if it is a problem for you, there are ways of fixing it.
For some people it is a horribly frightening concept that Slackware allows you to break your own system where you then have to confess "it was I who broke it"...
On the other hand, it allows me to say "I like Slackware because it was never broken unless I broke it".
I guess this is why the question of shutdown- and bootup speeds actually comes up (aka reboots).
One typically wants one's systems down for as short of a time as possible.
Of course some may have more legitimate reasons for wanting that than others - How many nines percentage have you committed your uptime to be?
Thanks
--
KarlMag
Quote:
Originally Posted by garpu
People shut down their computers?
As often as possible - especially the Win 10 ones. My work Win 10 computer starts misbehaving and running slowly if I don’t reboot every 3 days or so, but it’s shut down almost everyday.
My Linux and BSD home and hobby computers are only on one at a time. I do what I need to or want to, then they’re shut off. Windows runs on my one multiboot home computer only as often and for as long as absolutely necessary.
Hey fido your name is familiar...have we met?
Yes Slackware dependency hell can be like a train wreck :-)
A suggestion: next time someone brings up the notion that Slackware has no dependency tracking, etc... why don't we behave civilly towards each other
and do as these guys do:
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng[/url]
sorry missed another type... and in honour of 'rkelsen' we now have 5 types on LQ: the ignorers, the believers, the derailers, the counters, and the cantankerous.
It warms my heart to know I'll be remembered for something.
Quite possibly - I was a regular on a news for nerds site until it became less than interesting, and its would be successor until it became less than civilised (or maybe seeing how civilised LQ is opened my eyes). Or you're a Wallace and Gromit fan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus12
...Yes Slackware dependency hell can be like a train wreck :-) ...
I may have been lucky, but it seems to me that I've had fewer dependancy problems overall with Slackware than openSUSE. And, for the record, I first saw that particular train wreck when it wasn't a repeat
I should be working, but I really can't stop thinking about this thread and the issue at it's core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob
For some people it is a horribly frightening concept that Slackware allows you to break your own system where you then have to confess "it was I who broke it" instead of pointing to the distro's management tools and sighing horrifically relieved "it was not me, it was the stupid software".
I'm quoting Eric again, because this really hits the nail on the head. You're a wise man Eric, and your (profound!) post here really condenses the issue down to it's essence.
I can't help but wonder if the attitude hinted toward by Eric above has been created by Apple and Microsoft slowly and surely over the past 3 decades. For most of that period of time, both of those companies have created software which actively prevents administrators from making catastrophic mistakes. Therefore, it logically follows that the concept that with Slackware we have a system that by it's very design holds the administrator accountable for all of their actions must be quite scary to some.
On a slight tangent, this thread makes me think of the piano. I don't know how to play the piano... but I don't go around complaining that the design of the piano is too complicated and that it should be made simpler. It doesn't bother me that others know how to play the piano whilst I don't, and I admire and respect people who can and have clearly invested the time and effort it takes to learn how to do it well.
Let me speak from experience. I maintain Slint, one of the Slackware derivatives. Dependencies are handled te same way by Salix, Slackel and Slint. As an aside, dependencies of Slackware packages is available here: http://slackware.uk/salix/x86_64/slackware-14.2/deps provided by George Vlahavas aka gapan, Salix maintainer.
But to compete with other distributions, the main issue (common to Slackware and all its derivatives) is rather that we provide a lot less software in the repositories of each distribution. I won't speak for others, but in Slint cases this is because being the only one to do the packaging, I can't maintain as many software as distributions that have dozens if not hundreds of packagers. And indeed using third party repositories has its limitations, the main one being that their packages are not guaranteed to be built in the same context, or at compatible versions.
Indeed there's SBo, but many users prefer to get pre-built packages, even considering the various tools that make building and installing packages from what SBo provides relatively easy in most cases. And also appreciate that the overall set of provided packages be modular, so that to give just an example they can just pick the desktop they want among many proposed.
Thanks for the explanation. I have a relative that may end up using Slint on their old core 2 duo laptop when Slackware 15 comes out. Their vision isn't what it used to be and they say they want to learn to install and administer Slackware.
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