Current Users - Use Pipewire and Uninstall Pulseaudio Yet?
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I don't want this thread to turn into a generalization or a rant (much less a generalized rant) so I'll note for anyone like chrisretusn who is very happy with the current state of his PC audio it's utterly obvious there is zero incentive to move to Pipewire. Ultimately our happiness with defaults is all about our workflow and the habits we've developed over decades.
For example, having grown up in computing with DOS shells, like Midnight Commander, and loving most of what IBM's OS/2 prtovided with the (from my POV) horrendous move to Object Oriented Programming (though Rexx was pretty cool) it meant IBM did not include a File Manager. I had to buy one and I did. Now, in 2024, many distros, including apparently Current, are moving away from power permissions and I can only guess why that is.
I'm fairly adept at CLI but if I have a batch of files to manipulate in root space, my default is to "kdesu dolphin", which I've setup with different appearance so I never forget I'm in root, and can choose files, edit, save and move on. I know few people work this way but I truly don't understand why it is simply verboten and not still an option. People with other workflow systems won't ever be aware that option even exists so why shut me out?
I guess I hit a nerve, I did not intend to do this. I have not idea how I am shutting you out. Guess it was not the reply you were look for. I simply replied to the question asked.
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Current Users - Use Pipewire and Uninstall Pulseaudio Yet?
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Originally Posted by enorbet
Title says it all. Anyone accomplished this complete removal/replacement? Numerous systemd distros have even well before Pipewire 1.0 and I'm jealous AF.
Any way I do want to comment of your second sentence. I can relate. I grew pretty much the same along with Unix and a few specialized OS's . IBM OS/2 is one of my favorite OS's. Used it for several years from 1.1 thru Warp 4 and the eComStation. I used FM/2 as a file manager on OS/2.
Perhaps Pipewire will become the default in Slackware, could be something else, only Pat knows. I know there are many who prefer better control over audio here, it's all in the post regarding Pipewire not to mention AlienBob's DAW I appreciate that. Perhaps I should have just kept my opinion to my self, but that's not me. C-ya
To be clear, christretusn, you didn't hit a nerve with me. You are not shutting me out. We are cool, though the "nerve" does exist but in the manner in which early Linux is lately becoming more restrictive largely by defaults become not only compulsory, but to the exclusion of other options. I get it that Linux would be easier (and more like Apple and M$) if there was but one text editor, one word processor, etc etc etc but I'm pretty sure if emacs became default and vim, nano, and about 20 others were not only not included but function crippled, more than a handful would feel a "nerve" tweaked
It seems wise to me that Slackware continue to make pulse the default since I'm confidant that serves the greater percentage of users. I just want alternatives once they've proven capable of providing significant improvements. Pipewire already does provide some improvements but apparently a few obstacles remain for complete substitution at least on SysV. I'd like to know what those are and if any workarounds exist.
Anyway the fact remains that some distros have the option to utterly remove Pulse and replace it with Pipewire while Slackware does not. I really don't care what is default as long as I have options. If this is currently an obstacle for SysV, at least I'd like to know it and why.
@enorbet, thanks. Glad we be cool. I do understand were you are at. I am fairly certain if I was an audiophile I would be in the same position. When I was younger and my hearing was better, I played in a symphony orchestra. I still love classical music, it just harder to appreciate now unless I crank up the volume. I find a headset helps.
FWIW christretusn, I quite agree and I have 2 sets of very high quality headphones, one by Sennheiser (closed) and a new set by HiFiMan (open) but there is nothing quite like lots of air moving in-the-room. I witnessed many and one particularly memorable concert featured Isaac Stern at DAR Constitution Hall. It was at well over 110db SPL and yet Master Stern's Stradivarius punched through like glorious laser light. I will never forget it and that's why my system is BiAmped @ ~750 watts with passively crossed over ribbon tweets. Headphone are extremely useful but for ecstasy, it's all about SPL in-the-room (thankfully I live in a rural community )
Thanks again to fortysixandtwo, it's installed and while some improvement, I still can't uninstall pulse and have sound still working properly yet. That wasn't a major surprise since I can't removepkg pulse on Current yet either, but small steps, right?
Thanks also for all responses. We'll get there eventually.
I don't want this thread to turn into a generalization or a rant (much less a generalized rant) so I'll note for anyone like chrisretusn who is very happy with the current state of his PC audio it's utterly obvious there is zero incentive to move to Pipewire. Ultimately our happiness with defaults is all about our workflow and the habits we've developed over decades.
For example, having grown up in computing with DOS shells, like Midnight Commander, and loving most of what IBM's OS/2 prtovided with the (from my POV) horrendous move to Object Oriented Programming (though Rexx was pretty cool) it meant IBM did not include a File Manager. I had to buy one and I did. Now, in 2024, many distros, including apparently Current, are moving away from power permissions and I can only guess why that is.
I'm fairly adept at CLI but if I have a batch of files to manipulate in root space, my default is to "kdesu dolphin", which I've setup with different appearance so I never forget I'm in root, and can choose files, edit, save and move on. I know few people work this way but I truly don't understand why it is simply verboten and not still an option. People with other workflow systems won't ever be aware that option even exists so why shut me out?
Again, I don't want to go off on a tangent but it actually applies here in this thread. If your default patterns of workflow coincide with what's an available option, you will likely be content. If it doesn't, you won't.
IIRC Patrick was "forced" to adopt pulseaudio just like virtually every other distro if for no other reason than the breakage of from Bluetooth support. Briefly he offered a "Pure ALSA" option but understandably that became a royal PITA. Plus, the "just works" aspect pleased casual audio users and some workarounds exist to minimize how much pulse interferes for others. I simply want the option to remove pulse altogether and it appears Pipewire can and maybe will do that.
Much of all this can be laid at the feet of the other Poettering strong arm fiasco, systemd, which by itself is less bad than pulse in my view.. BUT both bullied their way in and I truly don't understand why and how it became so default, and without easy alternative options so fast and so completely.
I don't hate Poettering but I do hate the fork in the road with armed guards essentially cordoning off one of the two that he and his team are largely responsible for affecting all of Linux. I get it why nvidia angered Linus Torvalds so. They made his job harder BUT we and he have options, just buy another brand instead. Yet, the division caused by systemd and pulseaudio has lead to a time that now, does concern Linus deeply, that huge blocks of code like Appimage and whatever other forms of apps with all their requirements included just to "code once, run everywhere" ... well, it's just frustrating.
Again, I will be most appreciative when we have options to suit a wider range of opinions and subjective workflow, and in my case, Audio is hugely important to me. Pipewire looks like it can get there. It's already simplified and streamlined utilizing features common to JACK and vastly reduced latency.
If you're OK with pulse, I'm actually happy for you. If you're not, hopefully something like Pipewire is hopeful.
I've remained pulse free the entire time -- and, for the vast majority of the time, running an all alsa system. I've tested out pipewire and can confirm, that at least in my own experience, that pipewire can replace pulse --- however, it is worth noting, that I've never run any software compiled in such a way that requires pulse. Recently, I've taken interest in a fork of bluez-alsa that is adding in mixing which makes bluetooth audio much better (on a pure alsa system). I can also confirm bluetooth over pipewire is very nice.
I still don't understand the need for any of these over complicated systems, to be honest, imo the most trouble free system is pure alsa, the only complication being lack of bluetooth support in such a setup, but hopefully the future bluez-alsa will eventually change that.
Last edited by khronosschoty; 02-03-2024 at 03:57 PM.
Thanks for your considered response, khronosschoty, and I respect your effort to stay pure ALSA. I put off upgrading to Slackware 14.2 exactly because of Pulse. In fact, even after subsequently Patrick made a Pure ALSA script to stop Pulse altogether, I still delayed. It's ironically kind of funny that once I caved in and went to 14.2 I found that I couldn't get sound to work in Firefox even with "apulse". So I caved in and just worked to greatly minimize pulse activation whererever and whenever I could.
FFWD to the introduction of Pipewire, which was a bit painful very early on but rapidly improved. One major plus is the communication and integration between both audio and video. I see this as essential to many types of work and to the future of Linux as a whole. I've probably mentioned this but it may bear repeating. I do DAW work, at one time professionally and now at the semi-pro level. I can do OK in Slackware 15 an Current for editing pre-recorded material and some light live recording, but I sometimes do remote recording where it isn't practical to haul around my tower so I depend on a rather ancient Thinkpad T61P.
I very much disliked having to do it, but after swapping SATA SSDs to compare Slackware with Pulse, and OpenSuse with Pipewire only, I'm regrettably stuck on Suse for remote work until Slackware allows an option to remove Pulse and instead have up-to-date Pipewire support. I need both conditions and that environment is already available on some other distros. I will only be too glad to wipe he Suse disk and install whatever version of Slackware that provides me with such an integrated and usable audio-visual environment.
It should be obvious that user needs vary wildly since Linus Torvalds, and presumably many deep level devs, actually prefer silence, so it's kind of understandable Linux on the whole is very "late to the game" with audio. I submit such devs need a more egalitarian viewpoint.
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