Any Slacker running tripple boot?

Arcosanti · 06-16-2015, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

PS - I'm a little confused since the OP was years ago if this is still an active fix request or just curiosity.

I believe your mistaken. The original post was on June 8, 2015. This thread is only a week old.

NightSky · 06-16-2015, 05:39 PM

I put settings back to original settings & have to review my hardware setup... have 3 hard drives & all of them are different. WD Caviar 250GB, Seagate Barracuda 320GB have make sure jumper pins are all set to same settings.
Now I'm confused about BIOS options ide or SATA options is confusing, so I have to post in Hardware & come back here to finish. You are all great thank you. Be Back

enorbet · 06-16-2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcosanti

I believe your mistaken. The original post was on June 8, 2015. This thread is only a week old.

You are correct, sir. I could blame it on Antihistamine Zombie Syndrome but the simple fact is, that overall

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some_Frisco_Band

Sometimes the light's all shining on me
- Other times I can barely see...

or more crudely, "Often my perceptive powers are vast, but sometimes they slip to half"

NightSky · 06-17-2015, 06:12 AM

Everyone provided alot of information and many references to procedures I'm still not familiar with after all the years of Slackware.

@astrokgeek, Please explain how does each OS manage its' own boot loader on it's own partition and chain load at the same time. I don't understand. Does it mean you have a main master boot record on it's own partition like /dev/sda1 = /boot where I put all OS in the lilo.conf list?
@enorbet, I'm most familiar with lilo & don't like changing to something new although folks say grub is easier, I guess if you know it. There are references to elilo in my /boot partition, don't know what it means.
@animerisistance, how do I check my BIOS to see if it assigns 0x80 ID to the first disk.
@Arcosanti, I've downloaded eOS-freya & am downloading Linux Mint
@yancek,
I put in the 3rd hdd its Hatachi SATA 160GB with Vista home edition & /dev/sdb1 Windows was pushed to sdc1

Code:

# fdisk -l
Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x89ca89ca

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *        2048     1050623      524288   83  Linux
/dev/sda2         1050624   158337023    78643200    5  Extended
/dev/sda3       158337024   472909823   157286400   83  Linux
/dev/sda4       472909824   488397167     7743672   83  Linux
/dev/sda5         1052672     9441279     4194304   82  Linux swap
/dev/sda6         9443328    19929087     5242880   83  Linux
/dev/sda7        19931136   114302975    47185920   83  Linux
/dev/sda8       114305024   156248063    20971520   83  Linux

Disk /dev/sdc: 320.1 GB, 320072933376 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 38913 cylinders, total 625142448 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xb90db90d

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdc1   *          63   625121279   312560608+   7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT

Disk /dev/sdb: 160.0 GB, 160041885696 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 19457 cylinders, total 312581808 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x1549f232

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1   *          63   300495824   150247881    7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sdb3       300495825   312576704     6040440    7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT

Both hard drives' files are now accessible to me from my slackware Desktop, as 320GB File System and the other is called Recovery this is Hatachi 160GB.
@SCerovec, Would you please explain how to use bootloader out of box to point to other OS's? <I understand to use boot disk to boot back into slackware and run lilo install again, but don't know steps to setup other OSs in my slackware /boot partition during Advance Installation of Lilo. I've read documentation but understand only parts of it.
2) How do I make XP know where it's "system partition" is and it has to have the proper drive letter? drive C: = partition 3? or Drive 3- which is to some extent tricky to adjust by human:
have it installed on the right final place in the first place ??

NightSky · 06-17-2015, 03:17 PM

What version of linux mint & Desktop you all recommend? Where do I set raid=noautodetect? I'm going to leave windowsXP for last to do a clean install on 60 of what is now /dev/sdb 160GB Hatachi.

Arcosanti · 06-17-2015, 04:21 PM

If your computer has enough power, Mate and Cinnamon are good. If I am not mistaken, they are the fork of Gnome, after Canonical dropped support for it in favor of the infamous Unity desktop. If your computer gets bogged down by one of those desktops, I would suggest XFCE. I use XFCE desktop in Slackware. It's a real shame they did away with the LXDE version. As for KDE it's up to you if you want to use that one. I personally don't like KDE. If your computer is of the single core variant, then XFCE is going to be the only version you will want. If it's a duo core or better then any one of the other desktop versions are going to run fine on your system. As for passing parameters in grub, I never had to do it so I don't know how. You can ask on the Linux Mint part of this forum or post it on Linux Mint's own website forum. They will definitely know how to do it.

One other thing I would recommend doing is find a tutorial on how to build a kernel on Linux Mint on the web. It'll tell you how to get gcc and the kernel source installed. Then take the kernel config file from /boot and copy it over to the kernel source directory and check out the kernel config. You want to see if selinux, apparmor, tomoyo, or simplified mandatory access controls are built in. If they are, you'll want to remove them if you dont use any of those. Rebuild the kernel and install it while retaining the old kernel just in case something goes wrong with the new kernel. If they are not built in, then you won't need to do anything. When I used Linux Mint, those mandatory access controls were built in and six months after I installed, one of them went amok on me. The system eventually became useless.

NightSky · 06-17-2015, 06:32 PM

Great Arcosanti, Wiped out sdb & sdc...I have a DUO Core i5, Kde is too clunky, & would like to keep control in slackware /boot...with Lilo... which I can know my way around some. Was reading that with Cinimon it easier swap out apps with preferred ones. Going give ElementaryOS a try, LFS 100GB on XP hdd. lol fdisked everything but Slackware. Thank you

astrogeek · 06-18-2015, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightSky

Everyone provided alot of information and many references to procedures I'm still not familiar with after all the years of Slackware.

@astrokgeek, Please explain how does each OS manage its' own boot loader on it's own partition and chain load at the same time. I don't understand. Does it mean you have a main master boot record on it's own partition like /dev/sda1 = /boot where I put all OS in the lilo.conf list?

Hi NightSky!

Sorry to be so late responding... this is actually my third attempt, hopefully not subject to interruption as long as I don't fall asleep!

Before answering your specific question about how each OS manages its own boot loader, let me start with a few preliminary thoughts that directly lead into that answer. Also note that what follows is based on MBR partition schemes (i.e. not GPT) and non-UEFI machines.

One very important, I would say critical, thing I am surprised to not see emphasized by others yet in this thread is to use IDs/UUIDs for all disk references in your lilo configs and in corresponding fstabs. This will allow you to get things working one drive and one OS at a time without losing everything with subsequent changes! It will also allow you great flexibility in changing drive order and even removing a drive and still be able to boot those that remain.

The drive ordering, sda, sdb, sdc etc., is assigned by the kernel at boot time, is not easily under your control, and can change between boots. These also do not always relate to the drive ordering specified in the BIOS, so don't rely on it. Decouple yourself and your system from all that ambiguity by switching all references to UUIDs which do not change unless you change partitioning or reformat.

It is also very helpful/liberating to realize that you can have more than one lilo config file - there is no need to beat yourself up trying to make a one-size fits all config! It is much easier with multi-disk/multi-boot configurations to have separate lilo configs for the important different boot scenarios, at least for the OS that has responsibility for the MBR on each drive. I do this by creating an /etc/lilo/ (or /root/lilo/) directory in which to organize my configs. I also create an /etc/lilo.conf default which does nothing but install that OS's boot loader to its own partition.

And remember that lilo config paths for the kernel image and initrd if used must be reachable at the time you run lilo - and not necessarily the same as the boot time paths.

Finally, start off with a plan! Never rely on the often vague defaults across multiple OSs to somehow magically get things right - they rarely do! Make some simple notes about what will be on each drive, which OS will be responsible for managing the MBR on each drive, and where the root, boot, etc. partitions are found.

OK, now let's try some answers...

Quote:

Please explain how does each OS manage its' own boot loader on it's own partition and chain load at the same time.

Chain loading is performed by an "other" lilo stanza and simply passes control to whatever resides on the boot sector of the target device or partition.

Lilo can install the boot loader to the master boot record, or MBR of a drive, or to the start of any partition on a drive. If you need both - two separate lilo config files allows that!

So if each installed OS writes its own boot loader to its own partition with the necessary image, root and initrd paths, then each can manage its own boot loader without affecting any others. You can even install a different OS to a given partition and still boot it without updating the MBR as long as it writes its own boot record to its own partition.

All that is then required is that one OS also manage the MBR boot loader with "other" stanzas for each installed OS. If you have multiple drives, each drive's MBR should include an "other" stanza referencing each other drive's MBR.

If all references are by ID/UUID then (most) drive order problems resolve themselves and any single drive can always boot its own installed OSs. I say this solves most drive order problems because some BIOSs require a partition to be marked as bootable while others do not - Linux doesn't care, and if there is a Windows boot in the mix you may need to handle it with care.

I am running out of steam so an example from one of my own machines is worth a thousand words, I hope (it will also include the answer to your raid=noautodetect question)...

Code:

/root/lilo/lilo-MBR.conf (managed by Slackware-14.1 on WD drive)

boot = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD3200AAJB-00J3A0_WD-WCAV2C573625
compact
append=" vt.default_utf8=1 raid=noautodetect"
prompt

# Linux 3.10.17 with initrd begins
image = /boot/vmlinuz-generic-smp-3.10.17-smp
initrd = /boot/initrd-3.10.17-U.gz
#  root = /dev/sdb5 in two disk setup
root = "UUID=bca4198e-5edf-4997-909b-f370546e87bb"
label = SW-14.1-INITRD
read-only

# Linux huge begins
image = /boot/vmlinuz-huge-smp-3.10.17-smp
root = "UUID=bca4198e-5edf-4997-909b-f370546e87bb"
label = SW-14.1-HUGE
read-only

#Slackware 64 on 2TB drive, /dev/sda1 in 2 disk setup
other = /dev/disk/by-uuid/dabf6c77-cbb4-4130-9d18-c33a0068bdd2
label = Slackware64

#MBR on 2TB drive
other = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-TOSHIBA_DT01ACA200_Z3K1KW8GS
label = ToshibaHD_MBR

other = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-TOSHIBA_DT01ACA200_Z3K1KW8GS-part3
label = FreeBSD-10.1
loader = /boot/chain.b

# Windows bootable partition config begins
#other = /dev/sdb1
other = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD3200AAJB-00J3A0_WD-WCAV2C573625-part1
boot-as = 0x80
label = Windows7
table = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD3200AAJB-00J3A0_WD-WCAV2C573625

============================================
/etc/fstab (For Slackware-14.1 on WD drive)
UUID=b589f452-1888-4af4-b77e-28ac8c357ac7        swap             swap        defaults         0   0
UUID=bca4198e-5edf-4997-909b-f370546e87bb        /

The above drive is the boot device set in BIOS, mounts as /dev/sdb under Slackware when 2 drives are installed, /dev/sda when second drive is removed, and manages MBR on WD drive.

I had forgotten that I preserved the Windows7 partition on this machine and have never booted into it since installing, but it still works... hope that is instructive - works as shown.

Now, the second drive which has Slackware64-14.1 and FreeBSD-10.1 installed. Slackware64 manages the MBR and both it and FreeBSD manage their own partition's boot loaders.

First, the lilo.conf used to install to Slackware64 partition for chain loading target

Code:

/root/lilo/lilo.conf
#boot = /dev/sda1
boot = /dev/disk/by-uuid/dabf6c77-cbb4-4130-9d18-c33a0068bdd2

# Linux bootable partition config begins
image = /boot/vmlinuz-generic-3.10.17
initrd = /boot/initrd-3.10.17.gz
#root device specified in initrd, not necessary here
#root = /dev/disk/by-uuid/dabf6c77-cbb4-4130-9d18-c33a0068bdd2
label = Slackware64_IRD
read-only

image = /boot/vmlinuz
root = /dev/disk/by-uuid/dabf6c77-cbb4-4130-9d18-c33a0068bdd2
label = Slackware64
read-only

other = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-TOSHIBA_DT01ACA200_Z3K1KW8GS
label = ToshibaHD_MBR

other = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD3200AAJB-00J3A0_WD-WCAV2C573625
label = WDC_MBR

And the lilo_MBR.conf managed by Slackware64 on Toshiba drive...

Code:

# /dev/sda
boot = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-TOSHIBA_DT01ACA200_Z3K1KW8GS

other = /dev/disk/by-uuid/dabf6c77-cbb4-4130-9d18-c33a0068bdd2
label = Slackware64_Opt

#FreeBSD
other = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-TOSHIBA_DT01ACA200_Z3K1KW8GS-part3
loader=/boot/chain.b
label = FreeBSD-10.1

#WD Drive options
other = /dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD3200AAJB-00J3A0_WD-WCAV2C573625
label = WDC_Drive

Hopefully you can see the various chain paths when both drives are installed, and how you can still boot either drive in a single drive configuration. Although not shown for every case, each OS uses IDs/UUIDs in fstab config files, making them independent of drive ordering problems.

I use a similar scheme in all my systems and find that I rarely have to fight boot problems even when playing "musical drives". FreeBSD integrates fine as a lilo chain target, as does Windows7 apparently! You can also use a grub partition as a lilo chaining target although I have never done that. Lilo does not know or care what is on the target of an "other" stanza, so as long as it is something valid it will boot...

So to summarize:

1. Start with a simple plan and get one OS and one drive working at one time.
2. On each new OS install - change all fstab references to ID/UUID before doing anything else!
3. Decide which OS will manage each MBR, configure all others to write only to their own partitions.
4. Set the BIOS boot device and partition bootable flags as required by your particular machine.
5. Explicitly set everything - never rely on defaults unless tested!

Hope this helps - got to go now!

NightSky · 06-18-2015, 03:16 PM

@astrogeek, Thank you so much for not saying I should know this after using slackware so long

UUIDs are building blocks for managing& booting hdds akin to machine address. Awesome, I reread things till I understand & can use it, so far I've gotten this far:
Understanding Boot Management following commands are indispensable:

Code:

 
#blkid /dev/sda1 

#ls -la /dev/disk/by-uuid


HDD by Size
#df -h

HDD by Type
#df -Th

Volume ID of  Disk
#lilo -T vol-ID

Questions:
1) So I pull the UUIDs & relevant info. and edit fstab & lilo to use them?
2) During 2nd OS install simply choose to put boot on the OS's root partition or whatever is the 1st partition for that OS or create a partition called /boot for it on 1st partition?

astrogeek · 06-18-2015, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightSky

@astrogeek, Thank you so much for not saying I should know this after using slackware so long

You should only know it if you have previously learned it! I remember finding lilo to be confusing too, then one day I decided to just look at how it works and figure out how to use it effectively.

Most of the confusion for myself and others results from expecting it to always be as simple as just running lilo again, no matter how complex our drive partitioning becomes!

That, and trying to continue using /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, etc. as references, without realizing how un-constant and immediate context dependent those are!

Using IDs/UUIDs removes all of that fog and makes all those references very precise, so you can quit chasing your own metaphorical tail!

Then realizing that you can, and in multi-drive systems should, write the boot loader to more than one location using multiple lilo config files, all the ambiguity begins to dissipate - you are finally in control!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightSky

Questions:
1) So I pull the UUIDs & relevant info. and edit fstab & lilo to use them?
2) During 2nd OS install simply choose to put boot on the OS's root partition or whatever is the 1st partition for that OS or create a partition called /boot for it on 1st partition?

Yes, when you install most distros will configure fstab with /dev/sdx references which are really only valid in single drive configurations. So after initial install simply find the mapping from /dev/sdx to /dev/disk/by-id or /dev/disk/by-uuid for those partitions and change those lines to use the ID/UUID instead. Then, if the drives get re-ordered it won't matter!

And yes, when install a second, third, fourth OS, put the boot loader onto its / or /boot partition, then add an "other" stanza using the same ID/UUID to the lilo config used for the MBR on that drive and/or the BIOS boot drive (or another drive for that matter).

If fstab mount points and lilo references are all by ID/UUID, you can almost forget about drive ordering - it will mostly just work except that BIOS will still have a preferred boot device. But if each drive has an MBR chain reference to each other drive's MBR you can navigate boot menus from any entry point to any destination at any time - which is what you want!

For example, my own boot options from my previous post can be graphed as follows (I won't try to add connecting lines, but just follow the option names:

Code:

WD_320GB_MBR_OPTIONS:
  SW-14.1-INITRD (Image)
  SW-14.1-HUGE (Image)
  Slackware64 (Chain to logical partition on second drive)
  ToshibaHD_MBR (Chain to MBR of second drive)
  FreeBSD-10.1 (Chain to primary partition 3 of second drive)
  Windows7 (Chain to primary partition 1 of first drive)

Toshiba_2TB_MBR_OPTIONS:
  Slackware64_Opt (Chain to logical partition of second drive)
  FreeBSD-10.1 (Chain to primary partition 3 of second drive)
  WDC_Drive (Chain back to MBR of first drive)

Toshiba_2TB_Slackware64_OPTIONS:
  Slackware64_IRD (Image)
  Slackware64 (Image)
  ToshibaHD_MBR (Chain back to MBR of second drive)
  WDC_MBR (Chain back to MBR of first drive)

I can navigate freely between any chained devices (except that I cannot return from the FreeBSD or W7 chains). If I remove one of the drives the other will continue to boot and all options self-contained on it are still functional.

If I add a third drive I simply add a chain reference for it to the BIOS boot drive (WDC in this config), configure and install an MBR lilo config for it, and extend these ideas for whatever OSs I install on it...

All the ambiguities disappear!

And just to be complete, you install from any selected lilo config file using the -C option to lilo - but I am sure you have used man lilo by now!

NightSky · 06-19-2015, 12:53 AM

@astrogeek, wow - didn't realize how much of my slackware install & configuration is automated until I run into a challenge. Show me your fstab file

Before I go any further, need to verify that my partitioning scheme designation for: / = root during install of slackware is correct, since I've been doing it this way for long time. If I

Code:

bash-4.2# cd root 
no such file or directory
While
bash-4.2# cd /root
bash-4.2# ls
is empty.

bash-4.2# cd /
bash-4.2# ls
bin   etc    lib	 media	proc  sbin  tmp
boot  fat-c  lib64	 mnt	root  srv   usr
dev   home   lost+found  opt	run   sys   var
bash-4.2#

astrogeek · 06-19-2015, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightSky

@astrogeek, wow - didn't realize how much of my slackware install & configuration is automated until I run into a challenge. Show me your fstab file

Before I go any further, need to verify that my partitioning scheme designation for: / = root during install of slackware is correct, since I've been doing it this way for long time. If I

Code:

bash-4.2# cd root 
no such file or directory
While
bash-4.2# cd /root
bash-4.2# ls
is empty.

bash-4.2# cd /
bash-4.2# ls
bin   etc    lib	 media	proc  sbin  tmp
boot  fat-c  lib64	 mnt	root  srv   usr
dev   home   lost+found  opt	run   sys   var
bash-4.2#

I am not entirely sure I understand your question, and it looks as if it was truncated.

But here are the applicable lines from my fstab for the Slackware-14.1 instance used in the above examples:

Code:

UUID=b589f452-1888-4af4-b77e-28ac8c357ac7        swap             swap        defaults         0   0
UUID=bca4198e-5edf-4997-909b-f370546e87bb        /                ext4        defaults         1   1

Your "root" partition is /, the root user's home directory is /root and is not of much interest here.

I frequently use a separate partition for /boot, but not in this instance.

linq · 06-19-2015, 09:19 AM

Just tried to install -current and had an error never met before. LILO (chosen Simple install) couldn't install because of syntax error. Booted from disk and saw this in my lilo.conf:

# Windows bootable partition config begins
other = /dev/sda1
/dev/sda2
label = Windows
table = /dev/sda

Apparently, LILO generator was misled by the following disk structure:

Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sda1 2048 16386047 16384000 7.8G 1c Hidden W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sda2 * 16386048 83489804 67103757 32G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT

Fixed lilo.conf as follows :

other = /dev/sda2
label = Windows
table = /dev/sda

NightSky · 06-21-2015, 12:36 AM

@astrogeek Thank you for answering all my questions. So currently I'm running Slackware64-14.1 as my main OS. I'm in process of changing configuration files over to use blkid & uuid. Question: do I have to change all my partitions in fstab or can I just change /, swap, /boot the important ones?
Then I have to change them in lilo too and use the vol-ID for sda,

Code:

#/dev/sda5        swap             swap        defaults         0   0
UUID=135decfc-e599-48fc-b4cf-9cfda7d48162  swap  swap  defaults  0   0
#/dev/sda1 was /boot during install ext4 defaults 1   2
UUID=9fb0ca21-bd06-40ec-9265-6b97606cbaef    ext4  defaults    1   2
#/dev/sda8       /
UUID=5d9fc78d-da74-4995-af9c-27bcfb1870b6   ext4 defaults      1   1 
/dev/sda7        /usr             ext4        defaults         1   2
/dev/sda3        /home            ext4        defaults         1   2

Is this right? Can I use uuid for only some?

astrogeek · 06-21-2015, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightSky

@astrogeek Thank you for answering all my questions. So currently I'm running Slackware64-14.1 as my main OS. I'm in process of changing configuration files over to use blkid & uuid. Question: do I have to change all my partitions in fstab or can I just change /, swap, /boot the important ones?
Then I have to change them in lilo too and use the vol-ID for sda,

Code:

#/dev/sda5        swap             swap        defaults         0   0
UUID=135decfc-e599-48fc-b4cf-9cfda7d48162  swap  swap  defaults  0   0
#/dev/sda1 was /boot during install ext4 defaults 1   2
UUID=9fb0ca21-bd06-40ec-9265-6b97606cbaef    ext4  defaults    1   2
#/dev/sda8       /
UUID=5d9fc78d-da74-4995-af9c-27bcfb1870b6   ext4 defaults      1   1 
/dev/sda7        /usr             ext4        defaults         1   2
/dev/sda3        /home            ext4        defaults         1   2

Is this right? Can I use uuid for only some?

Hi NightSky!

You should make them all UUID, otherwise if the drive order changes the non-UUID partitions may fail to mount, resulting in a failed boot, missing home directories, etc. Remember, the whole purpose of using the UUIDs is to make the mounting independent of drive ordering at boot time.

Good idea too, to leave the /dev/sdx lines there but commented out as you have done - aids human readability!

And forgot to add, as the MBR will have no UUID, you should use the /dev/disk/by-id/... value for that in lilo configs.

When I am switching from /dev/sdx to uuid in lilo I usually create a completely new stanza which is just a copy of the original - then change the label and references and test by booting to it. If the boot fails, you can always boot back to the original to fix it. So don't remove the working boot stanza until the new one works!