A rather intriguing and, I think, rather disturbing thought on American (World?) politics

sundialsvcs · 03-28-2016, 11:46 AM

Kindly read past the "Donald Trump" in the title of this piece, and slowly digest its substance. Let's chat about what you think.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-en...p_ref=politics

Quote:

But what if that’s not true? In some ways, the most frightening, least acceptable thing to say about our American world right now — even if Donald Trump’s overwhelming presence all but begs us to say it — is that we’ve entered uncharted territory and, under the circumstances, comparisons might actually impair our ability to come to grips with our new reality. My own suspicion: Donald Trump is only the most obvious instance of this, the example no one can miss.

In these first years of the twenty-first century, we may be witnessing a new world being born inside the hollowed-out shell of the American system. As yet, though we live with this reality every day, we evidently just can’t bear to recognize it for what it might be. When we survey the landscape, what we tend to focus on is that shell — the usual elections (in somewhat heightened form), the usual governmental bodies (a little tarnished) with the usual governmental powers (a little diminished or redistributed), including the usual checks and balances (a little out of whack), and the same old Constitution (much praised in its absence), and yes, we know that none of this is working particularly well, or sometimes at all, but it still feels comfortable to view what we have as a reduced, shabbier, and more dysfunctional version of the known.

Perhaps, however, it’s increasingly a version of the unknown. We say, for instance, that Congress is “paralyzed,” and that little can be done in a country where politics has become so “polarized,” and we wait for something to shake us loose from that “paralysis,” to return us to a Washington closer to what we remember and recognize. But maybe this is it. Maybe even if the Republicans somehow lost control of the House of Representatives and the Senate, we would still be in a situation something like what we’re now labeling paralysis. Maybe in our new American reality, Congress is actually some kind of glorified, well-lobbied, and well-financed version of a peanut gallery.

As we continue "to plunge, headlong into" our still-less-than ten-years-old interpretation of "the new, social-media driven world" ... and(!) as we(!!), in the computer software industries, continue to drive it ... I very much think that "we need to contemplate exactly what it is that 'We Have Wrought.'"

I also would cordially suggest that: "this is not, by any means, 'merely an American™' concern."

"What this columnist is" saying, I think, "is prescient."

Jeebizz · 03-28-2016, 11:56 AM

To me this stands out:

Quote:

Congress is actually some kind of glorified, well-lobbied, and well-financed version of a peanut gallery.

That there-in in my opinion is the major problem. It is awash of lobbyists that have pretty much hijacked this country, and the so-called servants that are supposed to serve *US*, instead are under the whims of those who can afford to buy them off. I've been beating this drum, and I will keep on doing so, lobbying is nothing more than legalised bribery. Same with campaign finances, and the refusal for both parties to disclose donation amounts and who donated.

The irony that Trump is running on his own funds is somewhat refreshing though, since he is not owned by anyone thats the main reason why the Republicans want him stopped. So to me, this so-called electoral system is pointless if Trump is blocked and still has the popular vote. It is meaningless and I think not only it is un-democratic, it is practically un-American and the hardcore dictators/communists would be impressed by it actually. I dare say that if Trump loses the nomination, those in the system are guilty of betraying this country and should not only be considered traitors but even charged for treason.

I never said I would vote for Trump, but again if he is blocked by political shenanigans and murky maneuvering well then what is really the point of this whole system anyways?

The rest of the world is clearly watching how this will turn out. The US likes to tout how democratic it is, but now it is in the spotlight and rightfully so. A lot of things are coming back 10-fold to the US, and it is deserved.

cousinlucky · 03-28-2016, 04:37 PM

Some of my neighbors are hoping that Donald Trump wins so that our whole government implodes upon itself and chaos takes over.

fogpipe · 03-28-2016, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cousinlucky

Some of my neighbors are hoping that Donald Trump wins so that our whole government implodes upon itself and chaos takes over.

Howdy neighbor

Didnt realize you lived in Cleveland Ohio!

Seriously tho, reading the peice, its intriguing, but if the splintered, lazy, postmodern, consumerist, instant gratification mindset has entered the political sphere then this western civilization thing really is over.
Maybe thats just the inevitable consequence of corporations and lobbyists owning the government, government as entertainment.
A vote for Donald is a vote for Govotainment

frankbell · 03-28-2016, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Some of my neighbors are hoping that Donald Trump wins so that our whole government implodes upon itself and chaos takes over.

Words fail me.

fogpipe · 03-28-2016, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbell

Words fail me.

It is frightening but i have talked to people who have said similar things.
He does seem in some respects like the archetypal personification of all the wrong things about american government.
i have also heard people say that they hope he gets elected so that they can watch him personally crash and burn.

hazel · 03-29-2016, 01:49 AM

This isn't just an American phenomenon. It's been happening all over Europe over the last two years. People are sick and tired of politicians and they are turning in droves to vote for anyone that they think is "not one of them". Typically such wildcards belong to the extreme right or the extreme left, and the interesting thing is that it doesn't seem any more to matter which. The old left-right distinction that has dominated politics since the French Revolution has almost collapsed. People don't consider that any more when they vote.

So in the UK, they love Nigel Farage of UKIP (which, in traditional terms, stands to the right of the conservatives) but young people voted in droves to make an old-fashioned socialist, Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the Labour Party. In France, the right-wing Front National is wildly popular. In Spain, it's the left-wing Podemos party. In Greece, both the left wing Syriza and the right wing Golden Dawn are making the running. In Germany, it's the right wing Pegida. In Italy they even voted for a commedian! In America, you have Trump, but you also have Bernie Sanders. I don't remember a time in all my life when a man who identified himself as a socialist could get anyone to vote for him in America. Yet Sanders is doing brilliantly. So whatever Trump represents, it isn't anything as simple as a shift to the right.

What we have here is a disgust for politicians so profound that people will vote for anyone who is perceived not to be one.

cousinlucky · 03-29-2016, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel

This isn't just an American phenomenon. It's been happening all over Europe over the last two years. People are sick and tired of politicians and they are turning in droves to vote for anyone that they think is "not one of them". Typically such wildcards belong to the extreme right or the extreme left, and the interesting thing is that it doesn't seem any more to matter which. The old left-right distinction that has dominated politics since the French Revolution has almost collapsed. People don't consider that any more when they vote.

So in the UK, they love Nigel Farage of UKIP (which, in traditional terms, stands to the right of the conservatives) but young people voted in droves to make an old-fashioned socialist, Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the Labour Party. In France, the right-wing Front National is wildly popular. In Spain, it's the left-wing Podemos party. In Greece, both the left wing Syriza and the right wing Golden Dawn are making the running. In Germany, it's the right wing Pegida. In Italy they even voted for a commedian! In America, you have Trump, but you also have Bernie Sanders. I don't remember a time in all my life when a man who identified himself as a socialist could get anyone to vote for him in America. Yet Sanders is doing brilliantly. So whatever Trump represents, it isn't anything as simple as a shift to the right.

What we have here is a disgust for politicians so profound that people will vote for anyone who is perceived not to be one.

As they say " the Sheeple are revolting "!!

Jeebizz · 03-29-2016, 03:14 PM

I don't think he will actually make it to the White House anyways, again the establishment will find a way.

Lets assume though for argument's sake he does get elected. He will crash and burn, literally or probably have some other 'unfortunate accident'. Remember, too much is at stake here for those already who have been in power, Trump is a threat to them only because as much as he is vilified he is questioning the need to still have NATO, why are there constant military excursions that clearly aren't working but we do it anyways, why? Because there is a lot of money there, Trump getting elected would actually be just as bad for the GOP as other people think it would be for the country.

Why do you think the Republicans will probably begrudgingly support Clinton, if it comes down to it? She has ties to Wall St. and is a hawk, so the policies of the last 10+ years, will continue.

sundialsvcs · 03-30-2016, 07:57 AM

As the author of the article points out, "the times, they are a'changin'," but now in a fundamental way. I suspect that one reason for this is: the Internet. An entire generation of people, around the world, can now communicate freely with one another across national boundaries, and freely within their own nation.

The "Two Party System, Inc." power structure within the US, which has self-appointed Hillary Clinton as the only candidate (among exactly two) from which voters can "choose," has frankly run out of steam ... and, legitimacy.

A Congress (and a Court) that says that "bribery is a corporate human right" (when the 'ignored' document calls it a high crime equal with treason) has also lost ... legitimacy.

Even the bombastic Donald Trump is "hand-picked," able to participate only because he is himself a billionaire willing to spend his own money as necessary.

What is absent is "an actual, vibrant, political process." The Two Party System, Inc. was birthed in World War 2 and in the military industrial complex that came to life since then. Well, World War 2 ended more than seventy years ago, now.

"Father Time" is the political change-agent of last resort.