I booted AntiX this morning, selected software updater and was told that I couldn't update because apt was already running. So I tried "ps aux" and sure enough, there was a systemd/apt thing running as a cron job. A few minutes later, it was gone and I was able to do my update.

What's going on? I thought AntiX didn't use any part of systemd.

Which version of 23?

I am on 23.1 runit 64 bit full iso.

Perchance is libelogind0 installed anywhere on your system?

I get the same apt running warning you get, when I run the updater. I even posted about it.
https://www.antixforum.com/forums/to...pt-is-running/

I would not assume you have any active systemd services running. Just try a systemctrl command in terminal.
For us that command is sudo service start

I didn't even notice that there were multiple flavours! I don't know which flavour this is but it definitely boots with sysvinit. That's why it seems so odd to me that there should be systemd jobs running too.

Edit: Just checked your other post. Yes, that's exactly what happened to me, except that I didn't then try to do it from the terminal. Instead I waited for a couple of minutes and then ran the graphical updater. What I would like to know is what was that job that I saw running in ps?

Saying "a systemd/apt thing" isn't hugely descriptive.

Putting the results of the ps command into a file would have allow you to share the exact line, and someone could perhaps directly say "that's XYZ".

Have you checked crontab for any such jobs?


Otherwise, this command (as root) identifies any path involving both "systemd" and "apt": "find / -ipath 'systemd*apt' -o -ipath 'apt*systemd'"
On a Live AntiX 22 system, it returns no results.

This command identifies any packages with systemd in their name: "dpkg-query --list '*systemd*'"
On the same above system, it shows three uninstalled items: "libpam-systemd", "systemd", "systemd-sysv".

This command looks in the four main bin directories for files containing "systemd", and identifies the owning package: "dpkg-query --search {/usr,}/{s,}bin/*systemd*"
Running on the above system, this command lists init-system-helpers as owning two files in /usr/bin - one of which is "deb-systemd-helper, a script that enables systemd unit files without depending on a running systemd" - and may or not have been what you saw...

You're right. I should have been more precise. Next time I do an AntiX update (which will probably be next Saturday) I shall try to duplicate the error and provide more info.

Digging around in AntiX's crontab directories just now, I found a file called apt-compat in cron.daily containing this code:
That script name looks familiar. I think it is the one I saw in the ps listing. But the weird thing is that I can't now find this particular script in /usr/lib/apt:

Yeah. Lot's of flavors and choices. runit4 23.1 full iso is the only one that works out of the box on my Dell ll 8120 chromebook as far as hardware.

We are testing out s6 and s666 runit also. Those might be future releases

Then there is there is sysvinit releases. Which gave me no sound on my chromebook.

But work well on my conventional Desktop computer. Then there are net, core, base , full releases.

Hence why I asked. Heck. /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd00 should have you covered.

A Linux distribution only need one Init system. the ability to choose is fine but once the choice is made you should only be running with one Init system. Why would another Init other than the default sysvinit be running ?

Cuz

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No recent version (ever since Debian went to systemD) provides systemD capabilities, BUT if you are not careful, you can unintentionally install software that DOES use systemD.

In the antiX Forum there have been recent discussions, ESPECIALLY for antiX Sid users, about *T64 packages; these are being added to Debian to ensure correct date and time behavior, particularly on devices with 32-bit architectures, but these packages COULD sneak in undetected unless you carefully watch whatever packages you install.

When Debian makes a new package to solve issues like this, the antiX team sometimes has to provide their own implementation in order to prevent the possibility of Debian packages introducing systemD packages back into the system; that's something that the antiX team strongly desires NOT to happen.

Whether this is the case or not for you, it would be wise to check for the presence of such packages or anything else that either provides or depends upon any software using systemD. You are not prohibited from using such software, but if you do, you are completely on your own, so it's advisable to be careful what is installed; that would be the "antiX answer to this".

Debian has been deeply corrupted by the Microsofty SystemD philosophy so different than Unix, Linux, and original Debian. As long as AntiX is based off of Debian there will be a risk that any package install or update might pull in some of the corruption.

I have thought seriously about making a spinoff of AntiX, but based off of something SystemD free like VOID. I have also wondered about something more GNU pure, based perhaps on the BSD family. I am old, and my mind and fingers may be too slow to get one done in our lifetimes. if you know anyone actually working such a project, or if AntiX team starts on that road, I would get behind that and support it every way I could.

I fear the old Debian I knew and loved is gone forever. I will mourn it, but AntiX should live on.

It's a shot in the dark, but do you by chance have "unattended updates" turned on?

I doubt it. This is a pretty vanilla install and I haven't fiddled with anything. The AntiX updater does give you the choice of "Manual" (essentially apt upgrade) and "Automatic" (apt dist-upgrade) but I always use Manual.

@Masinick No, I don't use Sid. AntiX-23 tracks Bookworm. You can of course switch repos manually to track Sid but I've never done that.

This is an old thread and I must admit I'd forgotten about it. I only boot AntiX once a week anyway, so I haven't done any more investigations.