http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...-buy-used.aspx

I saw this on the internet then heard it on the radio and i am sick of it.
Although some points are correct e.g. beds and shoes etc., others are quite wrong.

I buy things second hand all the time and rarely have problems, about buying working electronics for 10-100x less? of course it makes more sense to go second hand.

Scam by manufacturers grouping togher?

Well, what do you expect from MSN?

Besides - how should a media person advise the general public? Remember, if they get it wrong they could be sued. I note that no math actually gets done, even in the references - these are subjective opinions.

There is an assumption that you are going to repair the item when it breaks rather than buy another cheapie second-hand. If a second-hand item lasts a fifth as long but is one-sixth the price you still have a bargain (saved 17%?) even when it costs millions to repair because you are not dumb enough to pay the repair cost.

Some of the arguments are poverty-cycle stuff: it is generally cheaper in the long-run to buy new, high quality, stuff. Trouble is, you have a high buy-in cost, and then you have to put the money aside for the replacement.

eg. I recall buying expensive shoes at NZ$200 the pair. They lasted 10 years. I had replaced my usual brand which cost me NZ$50 a pair but only lasted 6-8 months. The trouble was that at the time it was quite hard to come up with that $200 in one go. Had I actually put aside the 20 bucks a year I'd have been able to replace them.

In many cases the argument is that the 2nd hand gear ends up costing more in the long run because of higher replacement or repair rates.

But what if you are expecting high wear or abuse anyway? Say you are buying it for a kid or a high-risk situation anyway? A new ford is probably better than an old one, but to enter in a demolition derby?

Lets see:

Laptops: Agree in general, disagree on specifics.

If you are buying the machine for a kid, you know is going to abuse it, you don't want to break the bank on a new one. Same goes if this is a field computer to be toted up and down mountains etc. Or if your flat-mate does lines off the screen. Um... not that I've ever had... er, forget it.

Child Car seat - agree: this is about safety not cost. Similar logic to second hand parachutes (used once, never opened, slight stain) or seat-belts. Of course, by this argument you shouldn't buy second-hand cars...

Plasma TV: depends on the replacement cost and the failure rate.

DVD players: same again

Vaccuum Cleaners: agree - people don't normally part with them until they are very far gone. It is also cheaper not to have carpet.

Digital Cameras: depends on the camera - they vary a lot.

Shoes: sort-of agree, though the article generalises to footware... I used to wear second hand soccer boots and hiking boots - the bulky socks compensate.

Mattresses: I guess NZ is different - old mattresses are common here. You can treat mattresses for the human gunk. Note: we don't haggle over price in NZ and we also have stronger consumer protections and a population that is more risk-seeking.

Wet Suits: the quote is from someone who has a financial stake in selling new suits. I'd need to see the math on how wear affects function over time. It is true the material gets thinner with wear and that reduces its insulating properties - but the insulation in a wet-suit is also from the layer of trapped water inside. I just don't know enough to comment either way.

Helmet: like the seat - safety is the point. Article forgets that a helmet may come with the bike from a trusted source. Remember, this is also an argument against riding motorcycles. I do have personal experience of quite new-looking bicycle helmets falling apart in my hands - they'd been left in the Sun.

So its not as hard and fast as the article makes out. It certainly does not apply to all jurisdictions.

Not so much a scam as a journo doing minimal research, none of it critical.

More often then not, older stuff had a longer life span then newer stuff as the china are like:
Laptops: Disagree, i have never had a used computer fail but new ones have.

Plasma TV: Disagree because of the new price tag.

DVD players: Agree because they are so cheap and unreliable.

Vaccuum Cleaners: Marginally agree

Digital Cameras: Disagree

Shoes: Neutral. personally, i would not buy used.

Mattresses: Agree as there is skin in them LOL

Helmet: Agree



I was mainly talking about i do not agree about not buying electronics used.

Laptops and Computers: I would never buy second hand.

Car seats ? probably the beer farts would be a con for this one.

Plasma TV: Would never buy one, not new or old.

LCD screen: I would not buy second hand.

DVD Players: The lasers wear out ? WTF ? The motor that spins the disk will burn out hundreds of years before the laser diode breaks. I still wouldn't buy 2nd hand.

Shoes: check.

Mattresses: check ... they often have urine stains if 2nd hand.

Wet suits: check

Vacuum cleaners: they hardly work even new.

Digital cameras: depends on the camera, if it was real expensive new, I might take an older one if it's in good condition.

I bought a second-hand laptop last month. How else could I get one with an IBM logo on the case? And I bet it will outlast the current output of Chinese sweatshops. I only wish I could find someone to sell me an IBM Space-saver keyboard: no numeric pad, track-point, and it clicks.

I wonder if the Mods have already seen that M$N link. If they haven't, this thread should be closed!

^+1

Correction: The processor will fail way before that.

I still cannot believe that all of you do not realize that old electronics are better then new ones.

I NEVER buy used electronics. It's not about the electronics themselves. It's about the bugs. Having worked for the last 6 years installing various services (CATV, SAT TV, wireless internet, CCTV)... mostly in people's homes I've learned that things like cock roaches like to lay their eggs in and around electronics from microwaves to STB's. After a couple of unexplained pest outbreaks in my work truck and my home and consulting with an exterminator friend of mine I NEVER bring used electronics into my home or the cab of my truck, unless I know the original owner and their homes personally. I've also learned to pay a lot of attention to the faceplates of electrical receptacles and switch plates since these are good indicators of pest infestations.
I'm made a little uneasy almost daily at someone's house that I'm in. Almost always very nice people, etc, but DIRTY.

I haven't needed more than routine maintenance pest services since adopting my zero tolerance policy.

^ The environment here is not `cockroach ready'

Why should the thread be closed?

Because almost everyone here hates M$; therefore, anything M$ should be boycotted, including news links from M$N.

Using strict boycott philosophy on Microsoft will fail.
Why don't you leave this thread considering it was posted with windows

That's a bit ridiculous. I've posted links to M$ before, and that should not be boycotted. We can take what is in the article and ridicule it, find its flaws, etc. We have no need to childishly not even link to M$.

It's true that it's best to link to M$ and then ridicule and find flaws, doing otherwise is frowned upon

Why on earth would we close down linking to MSN (not MS)? It's a valid news source. And anyway, if Microsoft didn't make lousy products, I wouldn't be able to earn the money I do!

Links to Microsoft would only be removed if it seemed that you were advertising the products.