My opinion??? Edgy... Why??? I have used RPM based Distros,... Until you make the jump to Edgy, you really have no idea how powerful an apt-get based distro is. It's so much easier (if you have broadband) to update and install various packages you need to make things work, including the "proprietary" packages like MadWifi, nVidia drivers, ATI drivers, codecs, etc.

Can you use the install DVD's for Zod and Edgy as live cd's? If so, what option do you choose?

EDIT: It looks like you can't.

EDIT: Looks like you can. I'm typing from a liveCD Kubuntu boot.

Wow...I really like KDE - and the Adept Updater rocks - it's SO much easier to use than that YaST update crap.

Rock on kubuntu. I'm still configuring everything, but I think I really like it. The whole root setup will take some getting used to though

You do NOT need a DVD to install Fedora. You can use CDs - I just recently installed FC6 on an older system using CDs.

Fedora does NOT have more bugs than any other Linux. This is pure crap - quantify the bugs you say it has over Ubuntu.

It is one thing to prefer one distro over another - quite another to tell outright lies to support your OPINION.

I've found that new users have much better luck with the Ubuntu family of distributions, particularly Ubuntu. SuSE 10.1 ended my long term use that distribution -- what a bork of a good distro. I replaced it with Ubuntu and learned to love Gnome even after learning on KDE.

Well, I do like Kubuntu, except for the fact that Nvidia's driver is utter crap - it doesn't even support 1080p. So, my choice would be to use the default drivers and live with terrible gamma problems (and a broken gamma menu) at 1920x1080 or use nvidia's drivers and be limited to 1280x1024. I'm using Windoze right now, b/c from all indications it appears that nvidia's linux driver is to blame.

Using the nvidia driver provided in the Ubuntu repository yields a stable outcome that can't be guaranteed when you use drivers from other sources, even nvidia itself. The nvidia-glx package is the best option when you have an Nvidia video card.

jl, it isn't exactly a lie...

google "rpm hell" and then google "apt-get hell" or whatever derivative you want for aptitude's package management.

guess which one has more hits? can you guess why?

this may not be a big problem for server rooms and experts, but it is a very big issue for newbs.

Heheh, I just tried installing Zod a few minutes ago, and guess what? It failed to (and wouldn't) load the x-server on its second boot! And when I could actually get it to load, the mouse wouldn't work - but on the boot-ups where the x-server didn't start the mouse worked perfectly fine. And I thought SUSE 10.1 was bad!

Experts may have no problem wrestling with these "no-noobs-allowed" distros, but are they really meant for the noobs (like me) at all?


I do like Kubuntu except for a few points -

I HATE the "no root" setup. It's so annoying having to cheat my way into root mode to change permissions on a file (becuase I don't know how to do it with the command line yet :P)
-and-
I have no clue how you're supposed to install things that DON'T use the "apt-get" setup. Sure, apt-get is cool and easy and all, but I want to install other programs too!!! I tried for about half an hour to install the latest Java to no avail.
-and-
Sometimes it can't see anything on my Windows drive? About one in every ten boots it does that. (so far, Linux doesn't seem any more stable than Windows to me, which is weird, because it shouldn't be that way - in fact, so far it's been far LESS stable.)

Any advice on how to install programs outside of "apt-get"? Does the "configure && make && make install" thing work in Kubuntu?

Although it is possible to use apt-get and the command line. The Gnome add/remove and Synaptic package manager are the the primary ways provided by the Ubuntu. Using the command line requires considerable knowledge. That is way the Gnome GUI methods are provided. There is no shame in using the higher level tools provided.

I notice in your defense you didn't mention the misinformation you gave about DVD only.

I hardly think number of Google hits is scientific. One might assume rather than indicating a higher number of "bugs" that a higher number of hits indicates a higher number of installations requiring newbies to ask the same questions more often.

Like I said I have no issue with people preferring one distro over another. It just seems unreasonable to me that you trash talk the one you don't use based on what you've "heard" and then provide misinformation. Rather than trash talking the distros you don't use point out what you think are the benefits of the ones you do.

I personally find apt-get unwieldy. Unlike you however I realize this is an OPINION. It is much like the old tar vs cpio debate or other religious debates. You can't WIN because you can't PROVE an OPINION - you can only attempt to support it. If you could then we wouldn't have religious wars where people feel the only way they can get their point across is by killing all the "infidels".

i didn't give that misinformation, so i didn't feel compelled to correct something i don't even believe.

i think your approach is right, though. don't say other distros are "no good." fedora isn't "no good." it is a darn nice distro - and rhel is the industry standard server.

having said that, i have been told about problems with RPM systems causing more problems then debian based systems. perhaps debians solution is a bloated one, but bloat is better than torched for the newbie. once they get comfortable, i recommend cutting their teeth on other distros.

anyway, it is personal choice and i didn't mean to infer that fedora or red hat weren't good. they are. i would just recommend a debian based system to a newbie. other opinions vary. i've seen folks recommend gentoo to newbies - no kidding!

good luck - we are all on the same team and i didn't mean anyone to infer differently.

I Used to have both distros installed side by side, alongside windows XP.
I would have to say that of the two linux flavours, Ubuntu won out every time for me.
The main reason for this was the fact that it was SO expendable. For me, fedora core kept throwing curveballs at me, i couldn't play mp3's, cant play videos, blah blah blah. It took me a while to actually get it to a stage that I wanted, and even then, I still couldn't get it to recognise my wireless card was actually a network device and to use it.
Ubuntu on the other hand, allowed me to allow mp3's to be played a lot easier than FC. Video's? same thing. It even recognises my wireless card! The other thing that Ubuntu had going for it was the fact that in almost EVERY corner of the web, someone, somewhere had written a how-to on how to do variuous things. A google search brought up results straight away.
Maybe it had something to do with the way I was asking google (maybe it was just me! Would not be surprised.), but I had a lot of problems finding the same info for FC.
I would have to agree with JaseP at the top of this page when he says that:
This is oh-so-true to me.
I agree with jlightner when he says you cant just post lies about something to support an opinion, and I fully resect his view that he likes Fedora. Each to thier own, but I would dearly hate to see this thread become another "my distro is better than yours" thread.
Having said that, I would have to say that Ubuntu wins this contest - in my eyes.

if i were you i would use ubuntu like now i have tried fedora 5 on my desktop and ubuntu on my laptop but i feel much better with ubuntu the apt manager (synaptic) is works like sharm just try ubuntu

I think I'm actually going to give SUSE 10.2 a try (hopefully it works better than 10.1) - kubuntu is really good but I don't like the fact that you're so dependant on the aptitude thing.