This is LinuxQuestions.org, and people who post here are forced to give away their code anyway when they need help, and I agree with that trend. As such, programmers of proprietary software shouldn't be here unless they want their entire source code revealed to the public. Thanks LQ programming forum for doing its best to kill at least *new* proprietary software!

This is LinuxQuestions.org. No one here, regardless of sex, religion, origin, age or being a programmer for proprietary software (you know, Kenny, some of the people here have to work for their money) should be forced to anything or being discriminated.

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Huh ?

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Funny how that was right above your post...

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Well when people submit threads asking for help with their programming they are *forced* to post their entire source code, aren't they?

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Obviously not. They're required to post only what's needed to demonstrate the problem or solution. No more, no less.

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OK, let's HAVE this debate, because I'm sick of feeling kind of hypocritical - using Linux, maybe trying to make money off it, but keeping MY software to myself - if ALL s/w is free, then how do we pay for stuff? Cuz, you know, at the shop they won't let me have stuff if I tell them "I just wrote some free software".
*Richard* Stallman lives off donations ostensibly, but is it possible for the whole world to follow his philosophy? I've met quite a few Linux people in the UK, and they all struck me as being *quite* money-minded people - not at ALL interested in "doing good to society" - they ALL want to get paid for their work. And really, I don't blame them.
IMHO, free software developed because it's impossible for write something large (and good) completely alone, so you HAD to tell other folks how you did YOUR stuff, to GET collaborators. Personally, I have written both open stuff, just like Richard and their ilk, and, for example, webpage backends which I have NO intention of telling folks how it works - it's MY little idea, however small, and I'd like to keep it private. *And*, am I really going to reveal passwords and stuff in an open forum? That's crazy.
But there's a small part of me (and getting smaller as I get more and more frustrated) that wants to ask - since PHP is a free language, does that mean if I write a webpage, I have to make THAT code free? FWIW, that hasn't happened, obviously. So how does the writer of PHP make a living? If HE is OK with this state of affairs, playing God, then that's OK , that's the way the world should be.
But I'd be interested still, to HAVE this discussion with other people. What do each of you, in your heart of hearts, think?

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So I am with dugan in that I feel only as much as to help the solution is really asked to be revealed, but as Kenny disagrees maybe he could explain what is the best way
to help someone when they say I have written x amount of lines of code and get an error please help me fix it?
Now I wouldn't say I always know exactly what it is someone will require to help me, but I would say that most people (that I have seen) only ask to see what is relevant to
the problem.
On the other hand, when trying to help someone I have also received, 'my error is on this line amongst the 10 I am willing to show'. However, if they have calls to other functions and
variables used that show no indication what they might be (either type or set to), then how am I to assist without asking if any of these pieces may be in error??

I am not sure about others, but I have found in my 20 odd years of programming in all sorts of things that my error is invariably in something other than where I think it is
or where the error shows itself.

On the greedy side ... I hope people on here continue to help me when I have issues and I will be happy to return the favour whenever I can

and secondly even if people do post ALL the code of abc.c, who do you think is going to read that much and figure out on which line the error is?? I ve seen newbies posting ALL their code and their threads getting ignored!!

I do work for a proprietary software and when I have to post a code, I post some similar dummy code and make sure that its not greater than 10 lines!

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There is proprietary software in use in F/OSS environments. LQ has never, and will never, discriminate against members to demand that they open their source. Yes, it would be ideal if all source was open source, but LQ isn't the arbiter of that. As pointed out above, this sub-forum accepts all types of programming questions - we have had many VB questions answered here. I am really not sure where you are going with this Kenny.

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You put passwords in your source code? That's crazy.
PHP versions 4 & up aren't GPLed or otherwise "copylefted": http://php.net/license/. And I don't think GPL would apply to stuff written in PHP, any more than GPL applies to programs in written in C because gcc is GPLed.

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Isn't this the "free as in speech not as in beer" debate?

As long as we're on a crusade, my opinion is that this thread belongs in General. 1+ dugan

Yes, it's crazy.

If it's a password to get into your system, you store a hash and a salt. When the you get a password to verify, you apply the salt to the password, hash the combination, and compare what you get to the stored hash.

If it's a password to get into another system, you store it in a configuration file and have your source code read that file.

In neither case do you put the password in your source code.

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Indeed they are, my job here is to go to their houses and "force" them to post it. It's a great job

Think about it this way:

LQ's purpose is to answer people's questions, mostly about Linux, but it doesn't force anyone to do anything. If people need help they will post what is needed. You can got away with not posting any code, as many have, and even if some code is posted, it can be pseudo-code or it can be altered so that they can release it under whatever license.

P.S. You seem angry, is there a specific example that we are not seeing ?

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If someone needs help with programming they are doing for pay and the program is small enough that it would be practical to post the entire source code, then the fool who hired them is in serious trouble.

If an expert and/or professional programmer needs help, they are supposed to know that before asking for help they are supposed to construct a small program that recreates the problem that they don't know how to solve in their (normally very large) actual program.

No one forces them to do that. But assuming the problem was hard enough that an expert and/or professional would need help, they aren't likely to get help unless they first reproduce the problem isolated from the rest of the complexity of their programming job.

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