Config, I disagree

A "solid procedural background" is an obstacle in learning OO.

If OO is the aim, start with OO.

The question is if you'd like to go into OO at all, or not. Personally, I write in pure C.

Hi Mara!


>>>And it is good if you have a solid background of procedural programming
>>>before you get into object oriented programming.
>>A "solid procedural background" is an obstacle in learning OO.
>>If OO is the aim, start with OO.
>The question is if you'd like to go into OO at all, or not. Personally, I write in pure C.
Well, given configs post I assume he had OO in mind so it actually wasn't the question ;)

And as for "pure C" ... how much/how often do you code?
How often do you re-use your code?
With modifications?

Personally I think that OO helps a lot in re-use of code
and lowering maintenance efforts signifficantly. But I admit that
in small projects or where execution speed is crucial (when
100ns for a function call is too much :} of an overhead) C can
be used... ;)

Cheers,
Tink

My opinion is that one should learn programming with a language that is relative to his interest.

For instance; if you are interested in being a webmaster and programming shopping carts, start with PHP.

If, however you are more interested in being a sys admin, start with shell scripting, C, perl or python.

If you are intested in programming GUI aplications for Microsoft platforms, start with C++ or Python.

Once you decide what type programmer you want to be, the next step is finding the best book or books to help you. It also helps to have a mentor that you can call on.

If you don't know what type of programmer you want to be, I would start with C because it may be concididered the mother of other launguages such as PHP, Perl and C++ and would give you a good foundation.

Or you can start with Python.

Hope this helps.

English. If you can word your ideas well in english, then any programming language becomes much easier.

I prefer C. Then C++ after that.

To 360:
According to what you say about use of different languages, tells me I should learn C++.
I'm not really intrested about writing my own OS, or be sysadmin.

I'm intrested at creating different applications to different platforms, so C++ is the answer?

I'm, however, still going to finish one book about basics of C first, then move to C++. Hopefully I'm motivated enough to learn another.

Sorry to hark back quite a long way to something mentioned earlier, but there are Basic languages available for Linux. There's something called Phoenix which looks and feels pretty much like VB. There's a Windows version of it aswell, so you can port your stuff over to Windows aswell, if you like. Also, you could take a look at XBasic. It seems to be a little more difficult than your common-or-garden VB (I think it tries to be too much in one package), but all the source-code is cross-compilable, so you could compile XBasic for any platform you wish, then write your own XBasic programs...and in theory they should work absolutely fine. I've only tried in in Windows + Linux - it works OK but seems a bit clumsy at times.

As for which to start with...I think that possibly Calum has the right idea.

if you just wnat to have fun, basic.. after that C is awesome, simple and yet has the possibility of becoming complex. C++ is great too..

It's becoming a general discussion on programming, as I see.

Nearly all the time. Let's say 40 hours a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but it's the average. I've used many languages and then decided to use C. It's not perfect, but the best one I know.
Very often. Both. Code can be easily used in other projects/modules if it's well written. My method is to use max 20-lines functions and good comments and I can use them many times.

For me, speed IS always essential. I don't use C++ if it's my choice which language to use, because it's slow and tries to do too many things on its own. I prefer to have full control over my project (yes, I like assembler).

Mara

you CAN do OOP in C.
and 360 has a point. a programming language is a tool, a means to an end. if it becomes the end, then either you are developing a new language, a compiler or a lousy apps developer. pick the best tool for your job. after all, a fantastic screwdriver can't do the job of a hammer well.

depends on what kind of applications you're interested in.
what you learn in C won't be wasted.

To learn programming, the way it's "supposed to be", I would say Pascal. I have not seen a stricter stiff-ass language than that.

For big-time applications (on the *NIX platform), the order of preference is:

1. C/C++
2. Java (only when needed, preferably not for server apps)

For quick and dirty fixes and hacks (to save you time, simplify and automate tedious tasks e.t.c.):

1. Perl
2. shell scripts (bash and tcsh for example)

For CGI apps:

1. Perl
2. PHP
3. Python

And don't even talk to me about TCL. I tried it once, and when the interpreter gave me an error on this code:
and accepted this:
I just set it aside. I just became very disappointed... What kind of a parser is this anyway?! Personally I prefer the former (first) style of bracketing, and that just adds to it. Even shells don't have a problem with that! If there's a reason for that, btw, I'd like to hear it, because right now I attribute it to a weak interpreter.

Yooo Mara :)

>It's becoming a general discussion on programming, as I see. :)
Heh ... not too shabby.


>Nearly all the time. Let's say 40 hours a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but it's the
>average. I've used many languages and then decided to use C. It's not perfect, but the best one I know.

>For me, speed IS always essential. I don't use C++ if it's my choice which language to use,
>because it's slow and tries to do too many things on its own. I prefer to have full control over
>my project (yes, I like assembler).
What kind of projects/target apps is that?
We're programming acoustics data evaluation (about 270KB/s data stream from a towbody)
and have no performance issues using C++ on a P166 with 64Megs even using Motif & the
Xrt class libraries for visualisation. And as for "full control" ... I rather type 3 lines to display
a window saying "Hello, world!" than 200 ... ;) makes debugging/error-checking much easier.
And if you link the external libraries statically you can gain some performance, too. I don't think
that a statement like "C++ is slow" is just :]

Cheers,
Tink

Java I'd say.
I'm not sure why people are so against it, I've used VB , C, Forte, Java and had a poke around in C++ I'm basing this on writing applications mind you - not hardcoregetintotheosandmessaroundwithit type apps. Really business apps. A little knowledge of shell scripting (nawk sed) is handy to automate things

I like Java cuz it's neat, tidy, strict and if you think a design through, you can code it in no time! This also help in maintenance which is where I feel some other languages let developers down. It is good to know a bit about each though.

Then it's C no more.