How To Better Serve New Members and the LQ Community?

Originally Posted by jeremy This is one reason I think canned responses could help.

It would be good to try it out. It's really the only viable option that will prevent burnout, as well as allow LQ Newbies to receive some kind of help for their issue. Most newbies will have poor questions and lack information in the beginning when they aren't knowledgeable. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's the duty of veterans. However, it is good netiquette to inform newbies about how to operate on fora rather than to shun and turn them away.

I used to frequent many different forums and disappeared for quite some time. It is taxing to have to pry information out of someone who is asking for help. I think the canned response should explain how to ask questions, how to remain courteous/respectful, and that advice should be applied as recommended. Too many times have I seen over the years on the internet vague, disrespectful, lazy people who are just wasting the time of those who are trying to help. This is not so frequent on LQ as on other sites, but still does happen.

I guess there needs to be a few different types of canned responses for different situations that will not be off putting and will encourage further new posts.

I believe I brought something up in the past to the effect that if the situation, with respect to those people asking questions and not making the effort to search or provide enough info, were to change. The change would need to come from those answering the questions rather than those asking them. Rules, guidelines and sticky threads just get ignored. This seems like a step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by jeremy Based on feedback and further observation, it's come to our attention that an increasing number of new members seem to be drive-by posters who are not interested in becoming part of the community or putting effort into helping the current LQ community help them. This often results in poorly worded, low quality questions from posters who do not respond when asked for additional information. Over time this can lead to burnout for long time members, and can also lead to a poor experience for well intentioned new members who may just need a friendly pointer on how to ask a question. Do current members think this is an issue? And if so, what can we do to provide a solid, friendly introduction to new members while keeping burnout and poor quality questions to a minimum?

Hi Jeremy...

Yes, I've been noticing quite a bit of this myself.

However, if I understood correctly, I think it's unrealistic to expect folks to stick around and become a regular part of the LQ community. They simply want help to fix whatever issue they have and that be the end of it. That's not unreasonable. In a sense, we are a helpdesk.

At the same time, it's more than reasonable that we expect folks who post to show proper manners and etiquette, as well as to provide the necessary information and cooperation to help them solve their issue.

An idea that came to my mind is when someone first signs up for an account, create a windows as part of the process that clearly states (with large letters) these expectations you mentioned with penalties for non-compliance. This could be a warning for the first offense and suspension or being banned for repeat offenses. This wouldn't be something they could just bypass by just checking "I agree" and then clicking "Continue." The page could be written in a way that they would be forced to read it before being able to click anything.

I think if folks start realizing we're serious about this problem, then the incidences of this will hopefully begin to drop.

Regards...

Dual boot threads are hard.
UEFI is hard.

Poor posting makes that doubly hard.
Ingrate posts makes that even harder.
Snide remarks (I thought this was the year of Linux!) makes responding, civil like, even harder.

Out west here in the Desert.
"May I have a drink of water. por favor?

Goes a lot farther than,
"Give me a drink a water you luser!"

If you are polite and respectful. I will jump right in and help in my limited way.
If you are high hatting it and all that. See ya, would not want to be ya.
I might just get down and dirty with you before I go though.

I am not a help desk. I am a linux using scooter tramp that lives by the code of the road while amongst brothers.
If you are not my brother on this trip yet. You better be polite at least. Not ignorant and rude.
I can deal with ignorance. Not rude though. Definitely not both together.
I can be gruff online sometimes. Guess what? I am the same in real life. With a very big physical presence.
So I guess saying No online is better than me saying No right close to your face.


The fault does not lie with us in my opinion. When asking for something and really needing it.
You better have some thick skin and grow a pair.
Cuz in real life. You won't survive.
I am not having a hard time learning Linux.
Nobody twisted my arm to run this stuff.
Nobody is twisting their arm either.

So, IMO, new members need to respect that.

I grin every time I see humor here on this forum. If some perceive said humor as a imagined slight or imagined attack.

Don't come down to the border. You won't survive.

I don't burn out. I burn up.

Durn. Forgot the question (I know, "Improve"). How about some links in New users besides slackware one labeled "search linux techniques" like

LQ search Link >>>>>Just mention remove the UEFI I inserted in search terms

Puppy Linux Search engine

Debian Search Engine

Ubuntu Search Engine

Linux Search Engine

I hope with some of my links using site search. You are getting the idea. Like another I use is

Linky

Teach these new users how to fish 1st before hand feeding them fish is what I am getting at.

I like your attitude, rokytnji.

Originally Posted by jeremy I think it's important to make a distinction between members who register and post poor questions because they are new to Linux, new to fora, new to the Internet, etc. vs. those who sign up and have absolutely no intention of participating at LQ, have no interest in learning, want to treat LQ like a helpdesk, are not willing to follow-up or help us help them. The former we very much want to educate and guide in a friendly welcoming manner. The latter are what can cause burnout IMHO.

Pretty much what I thought as I read this thread.

To a certain extent, it's normal for a newbie to not know the instructions on how to ask questions, even if they have to read them when registering, and even if they should read the sticky threads on the newbie section before posting. I think we, regular LQ members, can provide 'canned responses' to this type of users in a friendly manner and kindly educate them on how to ask questions, what information to provide, etc., and simply ignore rude users who plainly refuse to provide relevant information and answer the questions other members ask them in order to help them.

I am not sure if this is already being done. Maybe we already have volunteers doing what I am about to suggest. I also understand it is a massive undertaking that is time consuming and requires the volunteers to be knowledgeable themselves. I mean look at what goes into Wikipedia.

It might be effective to write wiki articles on LQ Wiki on the most common topics posted in each forum. There are lots of repeat threads posted all the time. If more comprehensive articles were written on LQ Wiki, these articles could be linked in these topics such as these. The main problem is that the required information is all tucked away inside old posts; it is not easily accessible to newcomers and veterans alike.

A small group of volunteers assigned to each forum/sub-forum could go through posts and look for the most common topics. They could document the solution on LQ Wiki, and over time will create less work for everyone involved. I realize many of these topics are easily searched in a search engine be it google or LQ search function. Seems like most people do not use any type of search before posting. An easily accessible LQ wiki article would be a big help.

I believe that this will improve the overall quality of the content on the site, cut down on response times, save those who are helping answer posts time, and lower the burnout rate.

The problem with creating a wiki to refer beginners to is that most problems of the nature the users in question ask are disto-specific. A wiki entry for configuring a wireless internet connection for example, could have some basic information common to all systems, but would also need to include specific instructions for several distributions. Besides, how helpful would more wiki articles be when people are not reading the ones that are already there? A better idea is for people who answer many questions to keep a list of the various distribution wikis and include links to them in their posts.

Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus The problem with creating a wiki to refer beginners to is that most problems of the nature the users in question ask are disto-specific. A wiki entry for configuring a wireless internet connection for example, could have some basic information common to all systems, but would also need to include specific instructions for several distributions.

I didn't say that my idea was perfect, but it would allow anyone to search LQ and find solutions. I agree, it would require distro specific answers. That is what I am suggesting is put up on the LQ Wiki. Most of the content already is very generic.

Besides, how helpful would more wiki articles be when people are not reading the ones that are already there? A better idea is for people who answer many questions to keep a list of the various distribution wikis and include links to them in their posts.

I have read the articles that were relevant, and do search them when I'm looking for a solution. The problem isn't that people aren't reading them, I think. The problem is that the quality of articles aren't equivalent to other sources, or that they are incomplete articles.

I always assumed that the idea of LinuxQuestions.org from the very beginning was to be a one stop solution to finding answers to problems in Linux. Why not utilize the tools we already have to better server the community?

does vbulletin allow for certain members to have a dropdown option of certain canned responses that are editable when selected. should save some typing (burnout) when responding to such threads.

Originally Posted by schneidz does vbulletin allow for certain members to have a dropdown option of certain canned responses that are editable when selected. should save some typing (burnout) when responding to such threads.

Yes, moderators already use that feature.

I don't know if this is feasible, but a thought:

Just as we have a feedback system, how about something similar for new posters/threads. A link in the corner of the first post of a thread "Does this require follow-up?". Anyone who feels the OP didn't describe their situation well enough can click it, and say if the OP does not follow up in a reasonable amount of time (determined by admin of course, but let's use 72 hours as an example), the thread is closed.

Of course the OP may post again, the same thing. Repeated offenses leading to closed threads could lead to moderation or account suspension, whatever. If the OP posts threads that constantly need follow-up due to lack of information, maybe some other action.

Originally Posted by goumba I don't know if this is feasible, but a thought: Just as we have a feedback system, how about something similar for new posters/threads. A link in the corner of the first post of a thread "Does this require follow-up?". Anyone who feels the OP didn't describe their situation well enough can click it, and say if the OP does not follow up in a reasonable amount of time (determined by admin of course, but let's use 72 hours as an example), the thread is closed. Of course the OP may post again, the same thing. Repeated offenses leading to closed threads could lead to moderation or account suspension, whatever. If the OP posts threads that constantly need follow-up due to lack of information, maybe some other action.

Hi...

This is actually a pretty good idea and would probably be more effective than mine.

Regards...

Originally Posted by goumba Of course the OP may post again, the same thing. Repeated offenses leading to closed threads could lead to moderation or account suspension, whatever. If the OP posts threads that constantly need follow-up due to lack of information, maybe some other action.

I don't know if there's any need to close the thread. Remember we're talking about the case where the OP isn't posting any feedback, closing just prevents more feedback. Maybe just add an [ABANDONED] header, and a sad face icon.