guru's infected threads - I am voting against reputation system

1. As was pointed out, "Guru" just means that you've made more than a certain number of posts. See:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...faq#faq_newbie

2. I'm quite sure that at one of the threads igdolator is complaining about is this one, where he objected to responses he got from me and rtmistler (I think we did the right thing):

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...lp-4175547989/

Look, igdolator. If I can answer your question by punching it into google and then looking at the first three hits, it's not "off-topic" to advise you to do that yourself.

Originally Posted by igadoter No matter it is in huge part out of subject, and that you are actually risking to splitt this thread. Now I am OP and I can do nothing with this.

Yes, you can. As I have stated earlier, just report those posts that you feel are offtopic.

Note: While I am a moderator, I am already involved in this discussion, so I will not moderate this thread.

Originally Posted by rtmistler How about you help someone versus fuss?

These posts are my help, don't you think so ? We all in risk of complacency, self-satisfaction, fuelled by stats: number of posts, reputation.

Originally Posted by igadoter We all in risk of complacency, self-satisfaction, fuelled by stats: number of posts, reputation.

I haven't heard anyone say that their reputation or post count gives them any kind of authority. If you have, please link to it.

I don't take much notice of the reputation system. I click when I think someone made a good post, especially when it was useful to me or I don't.

It's a "like" system and will always be a "like" system. If there are users who use it correctly, then they are probably not in the majority, most clicks are - if people will only be honest - akin to: "I really agree with that guy and distro X is just the greatest!!!". Not everyone is using it like that but, as has become obvious over the years, a good many are. It's probably human nature and you can't really dictate how people use it.

But when all is said and done, the rep system, post count, join date and user titles are only a problem if you make them a problem.

There will always be elitism and those who assume that their 'stats' reflect their ability and that someone who joined last week's lack of said stats reflect theirs. I don't believe there are many of these users on this site, not enough to be a problem - but I have seen a lot elsewhere on other Linux related message boards.

Originally Posted by igadoter Sorry, but I saw numbers of threads where moderators themselves were floading thread and directed to nowhere.

I assume that one example you're thinking of is this:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...9/#post5391756

And I completely disagree with your characterization of the moderator's activity. I think that that post was completely on-topic and that the content in it was valuable. Also, I obviously don't think that a single post counts as "flooding".

Please post your other examples, as you've claimed that you were talking about "numbers of threads" and not just one.

It looks to me like you're trying to label any post that advises you on your approach to problem solving, or that doesn't agree with your complaints, as "off topic". They're not.

Originally Posted by igadoter Hi, These are threads where "guru" feels to be right to post out of subject diveriging thread on sand beach of corall island, where it can lay down and take sun bath. OP is defensless, and all the thread is wasting time and effort. Let nullify all these reputation points, to be "guru", to be helpfull, should come from today, not from the past. Guru's seems to be tired answering the same questions. But I am hesitating why then they bother to post at all? Something completely useless, out of subject? Say some stupid advices, about learning how to post smart questions, google before asking, etc. "Essence of the wisdom is flowing from their posts". Moderators also seems to be paralyzed by "gurus" reputation, allowing to post whatever "gurus" want to post.

As has been mentioned, the user title associated with a member is in no way related to the reputation system. While the reputation system is far from perfect (and we have some ideas on how to improve it in the future), I can't see how it in any way contributed to the response you received or has impacted the mod response from there. I think it's fair to expect a member with 800+ posts to understand how to ask a question in a way that helps us help them, and if they don't then pointing them to resources that enable them to ask better questions seems reasonable.

--jeremy

Originally Posted by igadoter It is eaxctly my point: guru is thinking he is able to give something of value - because is guru. Let's switch off these reputations point and start game from the beginning, we will see, do post would have some value? Or maybe the only value comes from it was posted by "guru" ?

I'm not sure where you made this connection, but I have disagree with it. If you think you have specific examples where this is the case, please let us know.

--jeremy

Originally Posted by syg00 This has been suggested/discussed several times in the past. jeremy seems to think the "rep" is needed to keep new passers-by interested. Short attention span and need for instant gratification of the younger ones.

That's not exactly it. As mentioned, the system is certainly not perfect and we have ideas on how to improve it (one being that you wouldn't give points, but would be able to add specific skills as a response to receiving a good answer. Something along the lines of being able to add +samba to a member if they solved a samba issue for you. We don't have any specific plans to implement this and we'd have to flesh out the details, but it's one example of a way to possibly improve the system). We also let you completely opt out of the system if you don't want to participate.

Originally Posted by syg00 Personally I think the post count should go too. Judge the value of posts by their content - only.

Post count is simply a measure of how many times a member has posted. It's not meant to be a metric of the value of a post and was never advertised as such.

--jeremy

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 I think post counts are wrong. Just because someone has more posts, it does not mean that person has more knowledge then people with less posts.

To reiterate, post count is simply a tally of how many times you have posted. From what I see, that is exactly how the vast majority of LQ members interpret the number. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 There is no real incentive for newer users to post on these forums. You are up against people with 1000s of posts and they will always get recognition over someone like me.

I'm curious what "recognition" you're referring to here. If you have specific suggestions on how we can encourage new members to post more answers, please let us know.

--jeremy

Originally Posted by syg00 Hmmmm - an unfortunate side-effect of doing this is that you are unable to give rep credit(s) to others. Very poor design.

Disabling the reputation system opts you out of the entire system in its entirety, which is what most members who disable it seem to want. Are you saying you'd like to be able to disable receiving but still be able to give?

--jeremy

Originally Posted by jeremy To reiterate, post count is simply a tally of how many times you have posted. From what I see, that is exactly how the vast majority of LQ members interpret the number. Nothing more, nothing less.

I look at the post counts a lot when evaluating how to answer some questions. If someone is brand new, and they usually say so, etc. I'll think about my answer and how best it may help them, or offer the advice that they've not asked clearly enough, or sadly have to point out that they've asked rudely. The truth is, with however many posts I have, if I posted a "Plase halp me!!!" thread, all misspelled and saying "gimme script, I need one now, thanks in advance!" I'd EXPECT to be lambasted and then apologize that I'd just gotten off of surgical anesthesia or something.

I'm actually looking to create a blog or thread or both. I had a very difficult problem and "just" solved it today. I had a question in draft for about 3 days. Writing that question organized my thoughts and helped me to get it working. So I've never posted that question. Nor about 10 other unposted questions. Because in my attempts to provide the "my problem is .... <details>" I end up self resolving them.

Originally Posted by jeremy To reiterate, post count is simply a tally of how many times you have posted. From what I see, that is exactly how the vast majority of LQ members interpret the number. Nothing more, nothing less.

For new users it is a form of intimidation.

The vast majority of people see post counts as experience. Someone joined the site in 2001, been around a long time. They post a lot and have 5000 posts. New user joins the forum in 2015 and says hi with a single question. Why should that new user be enticed to stick around and answer questions when the new user will walk away with the perception that there are many people here that have more supposed knowledge then the new user?

It is life in general. Experience is perceived as knowledge and very few are willing to look at someone who has been building engines (for instance) for 25 years and have that builder in a room where a new builder might stand and someone comes in with a question. Even though the new builder feels as if he is qualified (maybe book smart) to answer a question, he will probably allow the one with 25 years experience to answer the question.

This is not even including the people who post just for the perception of knowledge (upping post count). The people who have been around this forum will not see the problem, new users would beg to differ.

Originally Posted by jeremy I'm curious what "recognition" you're referring to here. If you have specific suggestions on how we can encourage new members to post more answers, please let us know. --jeremy

It is just as I said above.

What is the real use of post counts anyway? To show you have been helping others? This is not always the case but does give the perception you might have more experience then me if you have more post counts.

There are many tech sites that do not use post counts for this reason. It is nothing but a number to intimidate a new user. People are proud of them I know, but they do nothing. Just because someone has a 5000 associated with there name doesnt automatically make them some genius.

I really did my homework! Read documentations, manuals, I know how to do this. I found book. I read this book. But I still got troubles to understand. Finally I told to myself "why not to post here" ? You may guess the first answer was to point me to google. You know even this is completely wrong! If someone really want to help it points to documentations, manuals, books, etc. but for the havens! not to google ! Internet is garbage collector! One may spend days to find nothing at the best, at worst to be completely mislead. I am terified by people who tell that something is for sure true because they found this on some web page! Are there flying pigs? Of course I saw picture of one on the web! This works like that!

Now we may try to answer this simple question: why in the first place I didn't ask here ? In LQ ?

Originally Posted by igadoter I really did my homework! Read documentations, manuals, I know how to do this. I found book. I read this book. But I still got troubles to understand. Finally I told to myself "why not to post here" ? You may guess the first answer was to point me to google. You know even this is completely wrong! If someone really want to help it points to documentations, manuals, books, etc. but for the havens! not to google ! Internet is garbage collector! One may spend days to find nothing at the best, at worst to be completely mislead. I am terified by people who tell that something is for sure true because they found this on some web page! Are there flying pigs? Of course I saw picture of one on the web! This works like that! Now we may try to answer this simple question: why in the first place I didn't ask here ? In LQ ?

I did the google search with the exact same search string that I gave you, before I recommended it to you. In other words, I went out of my way to give you a query only after confirming it would have given you the exact results that you needed. In fact, I very clearly stated that in my reply to you. There was no irresponsibility on my part, and I did not tell you to "just go google it."

If you'd bothered to do it, you'd know that by now.

Oh yeah, that's another thing that new users (even those with around 800 posts) are expected to do: take recommendations. Instead of, you now, starting two threads to object to the fact that they were made.