If I wanted to be altruistic I'd volunteer at a local charity.

You've taken one snippet of my post, quoted out of context and obviously drawn the wrong conclusions / missed my entire point.

What if "the satisfaction of helping others and, as a bonus, helping them to use an operating system that you enjoy and believe in", just doesn't do it for some? Are they in the wrong place?

Do you still get "the satisfaction of helping others", if the person you're helping is an obnoxious "help parasite" who has simply used you and your free time, in order to save themselves some time and effort?

No, but those are exceptions and are usually well dealt with on here by seasoned posters.

2 members found this post helpful.

It's good to help people if they are actually helped. I get a nice warm feeling when a thread I have contributed to is marked "Solved", especially if my posts are marked as helpful. But the "help vampire" does not actually profit from the help he (I'm sure it's usually a he) is given. He doesn't become more knowledgeable about Linux or more capable of helping himself. The issue he has raised is never resolved and I have just wasted my time. Which is why I have become a little less friendly in my old age to apparent timewasters,

1 members found this post helpful.

Why are you sure it's usually a "he", Hazel?

There are bound to be threads where you effectively waste your time due to the lack of communication, or the lack of quality communication, with the OP. That just goes with the territory. But even then, your posts, and the posts of others, will hopefully contain information that will prove useful for those viewing the thread in the future. That's one thing we have to always keep under consideration, imo - that each thread is not just there to solve the OP's problem, it is there to help people with similar issues in the future.

So, even if your reply is "You have not given us enough information to solve your problem. We won't write code for you - you will have to put in some effort first. Also, while you're at it, please change your thread title to something more meaningful than "Help me!!!", that's still providing pointers to newbies who may come across the thread in the future. It may even make the OP realise that their request truly is lacking (I know, wishful thinking, but I have seem some OPs who do take on board such comments).

It can be easy to become jaded, I admit that. I've taken timeout from the forums on one or two occasions when I've become a bit fed up with "help vampires" (I don't like the term, but it is understood so I'll use it too). But perhaps it's like fossicking for opals - the occasional really positive outcome with someone who you not only help but also appear to inspire (and who may well end up contributing back to the community in the future in return) makes it worthwhile.

1 members found this post helpful.

I help people to prove how cool I am.

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I help people so they'll think: "He's not a naughty boy! He's the Messiah!!!"

I left a different forum because the mods (and I was one of them) would never get support for trying to establish some sense of professional environment. Too many online sites allow users to post any number of harsh and mean and disgusting statements without any fear of reprisal.

Just from my personal opinion. The "technical" areas ought to be places where any web user could easily access an discussion based on the merits of the original posters question. They should not be places for jokes, stabs, flames or any other topic that detracts from the technical part.

I used to work at a big computer place. They had an emphasis on being the best workplace. They didn't allow any employee to create a conflict from any voicing of opinions that were not business based. I wish everyone could have been employed there to get a notion of what a proper work environment is. Sadly work places and social media and street conversations are less than friendly.

If there is any rule that ought to be enforced is that the barometer of the reply ought to be how friendly.

I get inspiration from bumper stickers.

1 members found this post helpful.

That is a good structure for a forum. Serious technical threads and banter kept to discussion sub-fora.

The problem with that though is a forum is not a workplace. It is a place where volunteers help those with computer problems and questions. A workplace has employees paid to do job. Although forum members should endeavour to be friendly and courteous, people volunteering their time on a forum cannot, and should not, be expected to behave as paid help desk staff. A balanced medium needs to kept. Expecting helpfulness and friendliness is one (good) thing, but demanding "professionalism" will result in knowledgeable members leaving, which obviously does not help a forum. There needs to be give and take by both members and moderators.

4 members found this post helpful.

I agree with jefro. As an addendum:
*play by the rules or don't play. This applies to many things, sports (even recreational/pick up), work, church/religious groups, clubs, country clubs/yacht clubs etc... LQ has rules, abide by them or take your time elsewhere. Ask for help, provide assistance, and chat in the appropriate manner in the appropriate thread/sub-forum or take it to social media/reddit etc... Heck, even those sites have rules, TOS etc...

For those that don't like it, then go make up your own business, create your own rules and have fun. Life goes on.

2 members found this post helpful.

Agreed
Very glad I wasn't, as this sounds like the LEAST professional place I've ever heard about. If you honestly think you get creative, motivated employees (that work as a TEAM), by forcing everyone to ONLY talk about business during the day, you are mistaken. You are also mistaken if you think that a company mandated 'get-along-with-everyone' policy actually works; it does not, and never will. People are ALWAYS going to have personal conflicts. Some of the best ideas on how to fix problems don't come up when you're sitting at your desk, but by chatting with a co-worker, or when you're relaxed. You don't say "you'll be creative from 8:18 to 9:30 AM each day", and actually get results. Are there conflicts with my employees? Absolutely. What makes it a professional environment is that they act like ADULTS, work out their problems, and work together to get the job done. THAT is being a professional...not some mandated 'be nice and talk about work' policy.

Randicus Draco Albus put it well; there needs to be balance. But I also feel that the tone of the posters original questions need to be taken into account for the replies, as well as their posting histories. How many serial offenders, who have post counts in the HUNDREDS, keep coming back with "I need a script for xxx", or subtle variations on the same questions they've asked before? The 'professional' approach describe above encourages these folks, since they'll NEVER be forced to progress, knowing they can always get a handout. In the real world, if you had a co-worker who routinely kept doing it, what would you do??? Patiently tell them over and over the same thing while smiling, or tell them you're done, you've explained it before, and they're on their own? Telling someone "Dude...you've asked similar things a dozen times, why can't you look it up yourself or apply what you've been told?", does one of two things:

1. The person wakes up, learns, and CONTRIBUTES to the team
2. The person goes elsewhere, to be a drain on their new team

Either one is a good thing.
Yes, and this needs to extend to the moderators as well, both in public replies, inaction when posters get nasty (and leaving such comments around, which detracts from the technical-only replies), and in PM's.

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" If you honestly think you get creative, motivated employees (that work as a TEAM), by forcing everyone to ONLY talk about business during the day, you are mistaken"

I guess they did OK. Value of company is over $100B. Almost every major high tech company that I've visited has similar rules and expect employees to maintain professional conduct. Harassment in the workplace is a very real legal issue and it is morally correct for companies to provide safe work environments.

No one wants to read threads that are full of mean and insulting remarks. The technical area ought to be free from conversation.

ondoho https://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/donation.html

I posted something similar to this earlier in the thread. People join a group knowing what the group is about. If one does not like or agree with the group's ethos, that person either will not join or not stay very long.

With all due respect, you seem to miss the point of the post you quoted. I am not arguing against rules of conduct. I pointed out that volunteers cannot be treated like paid employees and be expected to stick around. That is why I advocate a balanced approach. There is nothing wrong with "These are the (onerous) rules. Abide or leave." But we must keep in mind who will choose, and more importantly not choose, to participate. A forum needs knowledgeable members to answer questions. If the rules or interpretation of the rules creates an atmosphere unfriendly to the kind of people needed, a forum will have a problem. It is not simply a matter of having rules. It is a matter of having rules tailored to the kind of members desired.

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I may be just old fashioned, but I help out the Linux/BSD communities on forums, because it is my way of giving something back to the community that gives me a free operating system & programs to use on my computers.

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Yes, because making money is the TRUE benchmark for professionalism, is it? Incorrect....Steve Jobs made a fortune, and was unstable, horrible to work with, and a generally bad person. Don't equate making money with being professional, moral, or correct. And don't equate a disagreement or argument between two adults as some sort of hostile environment, where only the heroic HR policies keep things from descending into riots in the hallways. Anyone who's served in the military can tell you beefs and arguments in a unit have two things in common: they happen all the time, and they mean NOTHING to unit cohesion, unless one of the participants has some sort of mental issue. I've seen guys kick the snot out of each other, and be having beers together later that night. THAT is, at the end of the day, being professional...they put aside what was, and focus on what IS, to get the job done.

If you/your organization is so weak that you can't handle a non-work related conversation or disagreement without feeling 'unsafe', there is something VERY badly wrong. If you lead by example, and don't chicken out behind nebulous HR policies that don't allow ANYONE to be blamed for anything wrong, people rise to the challenge and act accordingly. Every single manager knows who their problem people are, and they can either address it, or hide behind those 'be nice' policies. Addressing it means the rest of the team sees it happening, and knows the manager has their back...AND that they won't be able to get away with such behavior either. Apply it fairly, escalate if needed, period.

We are not talking about 'harassment'...we are talking about people phrasing something in a way you might not like. Those two things are worlds apart. And being a professional isn't hard when you have a neat little set of do's/don'ts that are rigidly enforced in a closed environment. It is *NOT* easy, when you actually have to think and act for yourself, in a not-so-defined environment.

There are astronomers and astronauts, and the environment you described fits astronomers only.
And what you consider 'mean and insulting' may NOT be what someone else considers it to be. Your opinion is just that...YOURS. Either codify what such behavior is so the rules are clear, or build a bridge and get over it. You may not like how some people phrase things, and that problem resides with you.
Nope..not just you, fatmac....that's why I'm here too. And I contribute on the openSUSE forums and stackexchange as well.