Ok so I've installed linux as a second OS along with XP 10 or more times and like everyone else cringed and sweat, hoping and praying my XP system would boot after installing Linux. AND like most of us i've experienced the loss of XP due to either the NTFS glitch or having GRUB screw around with the MBR or whatever else makes it seem impossible to get both systems running harmoniously on one system together.

What I always ended up doing was using BootMagic...but I've always hated bootmagic because you have to convert your XP NTFS partiton to FAT32. I dont know about anyone else but I kind of like having the ability to compress and encrypt my partitions. So I thought .... there's got to be another Boot-Loader I haven't discovered...so I did a google search.

This is what you need in order to get your dual boot system up and running:

1.] An independent BootLoader for your Computer -- Very easy to do.
2.] Pre-formatted (i.e. do it yourself) Linux partitions [ext2 and Swap]
using PartitionMagic. -- a little hard ***
3.] SUSE 9.1 Personal (This is what I used)
4.] Some Patience.

*** Just remember to read the instructions!



[1]
Why I hadn't searched for an independent BootLoader before now, who knows why...the important thing is I've discovered another Boot Loader and its compatible with NTFS! Those of you already aware of this software bare with the excitement, but there seems to be WAY too many people experiencing difficulty and quite frankly 90% of the help i've seen isn't very helpful at all (unless you actually know a thing or two about partitions and coding and the like.)

The program I found is called OSLoader and you install it in Windows before you install Linux on your System. IMPORTANT Make sure you make the floppy rescue/ uninstall disk in case anything goes wrong. That way you can get it off your system as you CAN NOT uninstall OSLoader in Windows or Linux. Click the link to get it.

OSLoader Screen Shots + Download

The best thing of all is that it's free. You can run up to 100 Operating systems on one computer with this. Whatever...just goto the site and read up on it yourself.

[2]
After you got OSLoader installed and have tested it to make sure it works OK its time to make some Linux partitions with Partition Magic. Ideally , it would be nice to have a seperate hard drive for your linux partitions. (This is what I had) I say that because I like to play it safe and not run into the mishap of mistaking your Windows partition for Linux and vice-versa.

WARNING! PartitionMagic is a very delicate program. Its very easy to screw something up and render your system completely useless to the point where you'd have to reinstall Windows, so be careful! For advanced users only...or those who don't mind making mistakes in order to learn ... lol (like me).

Anyway, if you don't have an extra hard drive laying about, be sure that your Linux ext2 partition and the Swap partition are created AFTER your windows XP partition.

NOTE: Write down the sizes you choose for both of these partitions...you'll need them later. This is kind of an extra step but wise because when you pop your Linux installation CD into your drive, the installation program will automatically select those linux partitions you created as the destination for you Linux OS...you can use their sizes and locations to verify this.

After this is done, restart your computer again and note that OSLoader now has added some new OS choices. Those are the partitions you just created. Pretty cool.

[3]
OK now you're ready to install Linux.... but before we get into that, changes and verifications MUST be made to the default installation configuration. This is where a little patience comes in...

*****Things that you need to verify:******

Check the location of the Linux partitions that the installation program says it will be installing the OS to. (They will be highlighted in red--->"FORMAT PARTITION") The easiest way to recognise them as the correct choices is to look at thier sizes.

Remember I said to write down the sizes of the Linux Partitions you created with bootmagic? Check to see if the sizes match.

If they do, your cooking with gas...If things don't match up, dont worry, you can make the necessary changes by customizing the partitioning process. Just go into that section and choose the correct partitions to use. Again, look at the sizes of the partitions in front of you in order to make the right choices.

A note on: /dev/hda0 or /dev/hdb1, etc...

As far as /dev/hda0 goes, the "hd" = hard drive a= your 1st hard drive.

If you had two hard drives you'd also see /dev/hdb where b= the 2nd hard drive and so on. The numbers you see (0, 1 or 2 and so on) stand for the partitions' locations on the hard drive.

0=the first partition
1= second partion
2= third partition and so on... just as they are ordered in the
PartitionMagic graphical display you saw earlier.

So if you understand all that also make a note of the locations of your Linux partitions you created and write it down using the above language.

A bit loony yes but that's the way it is and its not gonna change anytime soon so best to get used to it now.



*******Things that need to be changed:*********

GRUB -- where its installed (NOT on the MBR!!!!!!)
TimeZone (optional)


Changing where GRUB is installed is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing your gonna do. By default, Suse 9.1 has it being written onto the MBR (Master Boot Record) --- This is where WinXP lives...

...but, you see, WindowsXP is very reclusive and doesn't like to know it is living around any other Operating Systems. This seems to be one of the major causes as to why when you try to load windows from GRUB, it doesn't work.

(By the way...don't use LILO its outdated and a pain in the ass when you need to perform updates)

EASY AS 1-2-3

In the Configuration List, click the Booting heading. It'll then give you a listing of all the various options regarding the installation of GRUB.


1.Scan down and you'll see the option of where to install GRUB ("Boot Loader Location).

2.By default this is set to the MBR...Double-click that line and CHANGE this to your main Linux partition (the largest of the two).

3.If you don't recognise it from the list, check-mark "other" and scroll down the list of additional choices.

That's it! Save the new configuration and go back to the main Configuration List. Just don't forget to change your Time Zone settings while you're at it. Accept and confirm the changes. You're now ready to install. GoodLuck.

Man oh man, I remember the days when I tried to figure out grub....

Use LILO - it just works. I've installed Slack on quite a few dual boots
with LILO and XP and have NEVER had one single problem. This
comp has 2 Windoze OSs as well as Slack - 3 hard drives, and LILO
has no problem at all.

Yep, I like LILO. After 10 years or more using it with several distros I doubt I'd ever change - unless there's a LILO2

Is this post a joke? If it is not, it's the best recommendation for LILO I ever read!!

Ha! Ha! Ha!

As an aside - I normally just install XP Pro/Home (NTFS), load Partition Magic. Resize the C: drive and leave the rest of the drive empty and unformatted. Install Linux to the free space and let Linux create the filesystem and format it. Install Grub or Lilo to the MBR and that's that.

I have done this with a number of different distros and a number of different pcs/laptops and have never ever had a problem (apart from the ones I made myself )

Actually you don't need Partition Magic (as far as I know). The new SuSEs can do the magic by themselves ... though I'd prefer XavierP's method.

I have used both GRUB and alternatively the NT-Loader for dual/triple booting without problems, but I see some appeal in a clear separation of the systems. Did you also try to install your OSLoader in a partition separate from Windows as well as from Linux, so as to have two virtually untouched systems and a bootloader partition? Which one would that have to be (C: -- /dev/hda1, or something else, a logical-extended partition possible?). Can it start DOS (which normally has to reside in C?

BTW, is this double-posting by me as well? I plead extenuating circumstances, since I can't get answers in a closed thread .

i dunno ... i've had problems installing linux, doing weird and wonderful and new things as i go. I've had issues with lilo because the BIOS was set up wrong (last time i trust someone else to hook up a HDD ... it was hooked up... YES, but configured??)
I've heard people preach (same person that didn't configure the hard drive) about the virtues of not using LILO for the same reasons as stated above. I've seen people go to the bios to enable and disable hard drives before running either OS, and i've seen people configure a boot menu (which does the same thing, as entering the bios, but is far more dynamic).

I've done something like 200 linux installs, and i have once (as in 1 (one) time) had the joy of ending up with no windows, because i installed linux first, so then windows reset the MBR and i re-installed linux once Windows was no longer crying Ever since i've known:

"install windows first, if at all".

Granted i've never tripple booted a system, but what is wrong with lilo (or grub)?

NTFS glitch? well it practically comes with a big warning on the box saying "linux can't write to NTFS" ... heck i don't even let Linux read my NTFS partition (back then that was wonky as sin) and so NOW, i use FAT32 (IF i install windows ... that's a big if).

Dual booting with Lilo or Grub is perfectly safe. Once upon a time i had issues getting my HDD to format, but after that got sorted, lilo installed fine. Also once upon a time i used the NT boot loader (after dd'ing the linux partitions boot sector).

And more than once has something screwed up that made me think "i should have done the backup before i did this ... ah well backup now, then fix the install" ... (something i would advise against).

"really easy" sunshine that post is just about as long as my ... leg. what it takes to not screw Lilo can be summed up in 100 words. Ok maybe not for every man and his dog and that one in a million situation, but it's not like you're installing linux because you know it all already. Odds are if you are installing linux and you are having difficulties you want to check out linux and LEARN about it.

IF you don't want to do that, get Knoppix or one of the other life boot CD's ... with those you can have a nice joyful toying with linux, highly unlikely you'll have problems.

I'm sorry if i sound harsh, i post on here with problems like everyone else, but the concept of using an OS written by hackers around the world, in autopilot mode, using software that circumvents learning anything about the OS, is about as great an idea as getting a 3GHz chip and running Windows95 on it ...

As for the (inevitable) argument "you have to start learning somewhere", true, but this isn't a "training wheels on a bicycle" issue, it's a "learning to drive a car by listening to audiotapes while you sleep" thing.

Generally, i would fdisk the drive, create a partition for Windows, install windows, install linux (and in the process create the partitions for windows using cfdisk or whatever the installer provides)

Hm, I don't think that you can "avoid" learning by using this OSLoader. After it brings up the system you are running Linux after all. Also, without having checked how it works, I assumed that this OSLoader chainloads GRUB/LILO to start Linux ... so, actually an additional layer (to learn about) would be added.

I've just moved the thread to Success Stories, because it's a good place for and it may be lost in Newbie.

if you think so ... sure ... but i would argue that you are restricting yourself to a (granted, large) area of linux and are ignoring it's inter operation with another OS, which, if you are running two OS, would be part of the learning experience.

ALSO, instead of working out why you were having issues with the Linux supplied boot loader you are not looking into that, and are doing it in a different, easy way.

That said, you are still running linux, so not all is lost

i was booting with system commander for the longest time, then i attempted to install mandrake 10 and that failed however it managed to screw up the partition table just enough to prevent me from using system commander anymore

i'm now running mandrake 9.1 and using LILO

i now prefer its simpler and defult to Linux at startup....

- perry