Hi

Here's a text of a complaint I made today about not being able to NOT buy Windows on notebooks sold in Belgium.

I know there a miraculous Windows Refund stories out there but they all seem too time-consuming. Why can't we have choice?

In theory, Belgium (and other EU states) should provide consumer protection (that includes preventing 'forced illegal linked selling practices').

David
(dafydd in Welsh)


-----Original message-----
From: "David Ferguson" david@XXXXX.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:56:51 +0100
To: sg-plaintes@cec.eu.int
Subject: Illegal forced sale of Microsoft OS with notebooks in Belgium and the EU

Dear Secretary General,
Dear Ms Day,

I am writing to make a formal complaint concerning the forced sale of Microsoft OS with notebooks in Belgium and other EU countries, and more specifically the failure of Belgian authorities to prevent the distortion of the market for notebook laptop computers.

All major notebook computer suppliers in Belgium, perhaps representing almost 99% of the retail notebook market, offer no option other than to pay for a pre-installed version of Windows. Such companies include Dell, Packard Bell, Photo Hall, MediaMarkt, HP, Sony, Toshiba, Acer, Fujitsu Siemens, and Lenovo.

The forced pre-installing of and payment for Microsoft operating systems on notebooks in Belgium has engendered a distorted market. The companies involved maintain confidential pricing policies as to manufacturer-paid charges for the Windows operating systems. However, there are indications that this could lead to excess charges of EUR 100 for unit purchased by an end consumer.

As a user of an alternative operating system based upon a GNU General Public License, as do some 5 percent of notebook users, I myself now face being charged for a product I do not and will not need.

Although the End User License Agreement (EULA) for the Microsoft Windows XP Professional and Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition refers in vague terms to the possibility of a refund in the event of not installing and not agreeing with the EULA terms, notebook providers in Belgium refuse to offer such refunds and do not have known procedures for so doing.

As a normal customer buying a single notebook, it is not possible in any way to configure purchase options so as NOT to pay for a Windows operating system at any of the following retailers: Dell, Packard Bell, Photo Hall, MediaMarkt, HP, Sony, Toshiba, Acer, Fujitsu Siemens, and Lenovo.

I therefore request that the Commission make a formal investigation into the distortion of notebook computer market in Belgium and elsewhere as well as to force local authorities to ensure that consumers have the right to choose whether or not to buy a Windows operating system when purchasing a notebook in Belgium and elsewhere within the EU.

Yours sincerely,
David Ferguson

David,

I share your pain. I also live in Belgium and it is indeed impossible.
Talking with shop-employees doesn't help at all. The refund system is unknown. And people have that look, you know, as if it is a cheap trick to get a discount and use your cracked windows at home.

It's not just your notebook. You can also not buy a prebuild computer without a windows license. I just buy the parts but I'm also lasy and I would like to be able to buy a whole computer without having to put it together. (i know, i'm getting old )

Look, if you want to pursue this, i'm behind you. If you need help from someone in Belgium, just mail me or something. (do so in advance, busy life and all)

Anyways.. good luck with your plight.

Hello.
Maybe i don't live in Belgium, but i can still understand your problem.
I don't like the thought that Windows is the default OS.
My luck is that i bought my laptop a long time ago, without buying any OS.
Microsoft has took control over the computer market, so you have to find a deal, where you can buy only a laptop, without OS.

There is no way round this as far as I can see. Surely this breaks fair-trading practices, something Microsoft is getting hit heavily with at the minute.

As mentioned, the same is true for pre-build computers and so I too look to building my own desktops rather than paying for a dell/packard bell etc.

Unfortunately, I find recently Dell offers comparable prices to a computer I can build myself and it takes the hassle out of building the thing (and problems when a component doesnt work)

I fear the next computer I buy will be pre-built from Dell

At the low end it's hard to beat them, very hard. At the high end it's extremely easy to beat them.

So I'm guessing you are shooting for budget machines, because I've seen nothing in a comparable price range by Dell or any of the others to what I have (3800+ X2, 7800 GT w/ 2 gigs of ram, 2 250 GB Hds & a 24" acer lcd).

But if you want budget I definitely suggest going with the pre-built machines. I wouldn't waste time with building either if it was just a unit for basic work. But for a gaming machine I just wouldn't go that route.

A laptop gaming machine?
Oh well, why not.


I think the hardware manufacturers carry the main responsibility for this, rather than Microsoft.

dafydd007, looks like you got an amazingly detailed answer to your letter.
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/64267/index.html
Unfortunate, but probably correct.

Have you tried shopping for computers near universities? Sometimes they offer notebooks to students with Linux. I know they do here at the ETH in Switzerland. Expensive but a good value.

go for it dude


get micro$oft

It's easy,

1. Put one slightly-used OEM license on eBay
2. Wait for Microsoft to sue
3. Countersue on the basis of fraud and breach of contract (since you did not agree to the EULA and they refuse to honor the refund, they are in breach of contract AND committed fraud)

Of course I do not know if this would apply in Belgium. . .