With Maemo Leste one really needs to understand the history - it's a continuation of an OS developed by Nokia some 10 years ago for their N900 (famous model with slide-out keyboard and later the N9.
This OS is partly/mostly opensource.
The OS, esp. on the N900, has active followers up to this day, with contributed software, a community software store etc. It's also been the seed for Sailfish OS which works nicely on a fewconsumer devices (I'm using it right now).
Leste continues development, but on a current GNU/Linux base, in a way that updates are possible like on any other Linux distro.

Exchangeable main board! That's more than the Fairphone ever achieved!

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I found a simple way to test some mobile Linux OS's on my android. All I did was download the x86_64 images for PureOS, Plasma Mobile and Maemo Leste. Next I boot one of these in qemu with the -vnc option. This allowed me to use bVNC on Android to get a really slow but almost usable UI on my device. I went on to modify the -device option to change the resolution to the resolution of my device, this worked for Plasma Mobile and Phosh, but Maemo Leste didn't work with that resolution.

All in all it won't be worth the bother for most people but it's an easy way to actually interact with a mobile OS with (limited)touch and see how they are progressing.

Chroot would be much nicer because it would run faster and actually run ON the phone but so far I haven't quite got it working.

How about iPhone?

I was just watching a video about the new linux phone that Pine64 has in development that a youtuber got their hands on to test, its running a phone operating system on top of debian.
Looks pretty cool and its an open source phone.

I wouldn't put it like that, I would rather say it's running a specialised Debian System with phone software.
It will be able to run other operating systems, btw. Quite an impressive list already. That's what Librem 5 hard- and software development should've been like from the start. Good for pine64, I prefer their business model.

PS: this Sahilty user is beginning to get on my nerves. They only post empty remarks like that. Bot?

Sorry your right, not the best description, but AFAIK it basically runs Debian with a specialised GUI for phones.
Im assuming you could load android on this possibly too, since Android runs on linux?

Did you read what I wrote, maybe clicked on the link?
There's definitely more than Debian-based distros for this.

Technically yes, but "Linux phone" here refers to Linux as a whole operating system, not just the kernel.
Why on earth would I want to run Android on a phone developed specifically to be able to run Linux operating systems...

Yes your right of course it can run any linux distro thats compatible with its hardware.

Regarding android, I thought it would be useful to run android apps from the play store, at least as an interm measure until we see linux phones go mainstream enough for developers to port their apps to a different platform, or else a linux phone is completley useless.

At least there is a great deal of distros available for the Pine64 phone.
I bought their first product through kickstarter and it only came shipped with android and there was a debian distro available too but it ran terrible and slow, and often crashed or hung, problems that others too were reporting.

What exactly are you refering to here? A PinePhone? And when was that?

Would have been December 2015 when I ordered on kickstarter and didnt get until around August 2016 from memory.


It was their first single board computer, the guy behind the kickstarter used to work for apple.
Supposed to be the first 64 bit SBC with an ARM chip.

I wouldn't say the thing performs very fast, android runs better than Debian did.
https://www.pine64.org/devices/singl...ters/pine-a64/

Looks like phones is something new that the company is exploring.

I seen GloDroid was added to the PinePhone wiki. However your logic seems flawed to me. Usually when there are apps "missing", somebody, somewhere will fill the void. So in that sense just dropping droid apps in will likely slow development on alternatives.


[RANT]
A Linux phone that can call, text, browse the web, etc is completely useless without developers porting their apps? It's a phone, what more does a person actually need? If I liked Android or iOS, I certainly wouldn't be switching to a device that runs mainstream Linux and run Android, I'd just keep using the crap I've got! Those privacy switches don't sell the phone for me.

In my experience, the more mainstream and the more "idiot proof" (no offence) an os/interface becomes, the more unusable and locked down it becomes.

[/RANT]

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Lots of everyday apps would be required for the average user, e.g your bank or if you are into social media, likely you will want twitter, instagram, facebook and snapchat installed, or else no one will ever buy such a phone, it will only be a speciality item. A linux phone sounds a great idea, but I will never use one unless it supports enough apps, unless there is significant "leadership" its not really easy to achieve this.

[RANT]
I know im going to be hated for this, but this is just my observations.
To sell to the masses it does need to be idiot proof or else there is no way you will get mainstream adoption, but that seems to be a problem in the Linux community, from what im hearing it seems there is a number out there that would rather remain a minority who hold something special rather than something that everyone uses like the norm.
This is one of the things that put me off linux in the early days, back in the early 2000's, my mate who was a total geek was trying to get me to use linux.
I had a go with it, and was like how on earth do they expect the whole world to switch to this OS that is so un-user friendly, requiring you to go into the terminal to do simple tasks like mount USB drives, or a DVD when inserted just to access the media?
Linux has come a long way thanks to the likes of Ubuntu, but after getting back into linux after so long, im still finding its easy to break things, even a simple task as installing a video driver requires you to do a bunch of stuff in the terminal, and then I broke something with either X-server or my display manager, and no solutions I could find after spending hours on google. I ended up scrapping debian and installing Ubuntu, and at least everything just "works" out of the box, and thats how it should be!

I work as a computer technician who deals mostly with microsoft windows, but at least its usable and doesnt require you to be a geek to use it and remember a fat textbook of commands. I really hope we see Linux get to the point where it is usable for the average person. I feel we are really only just there now, we are like 20 years behind windows in this area. Using the terminal should only be necessary for diagnostics, repair or modifying the system.

I am really getting tired of M$, especially with windows 10 and want to really change to Linux, but boy they dont make it easy.
Anyway this is topic for another discussion, I think the linux phone is a great idea, but what is the goal? To me its a niche product. For those that dont need an android phone with all its available apps, I can see it having a use.
[/RANT]

I find this slightly amusing. Pine64 had no trouble selling out both batches.

No hate, we hear this all the time on here. And yes I'm one of the guys who doesn't want to see commercialization and the crap that it brings. I see no need to be restricted by the mass majority who doesn't even know what an OS is. That's why Windows 10 and Mac exist.

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Pine64 is basically a single board computer, there is quite a following for these, particularly with hobbyists, and no surprise it sold.
I am not overly impressed with its reliability (I think its overheating issues from what i read) but there is not much support with distros currently from what I can tell
Perhaps their ecosystem will change over time as their products become more popular, but raspberry pi seems to be the dominant one on the market even though there are many other better SBCs on the market.

Whats your view on ubuntu, is that too over commercialised for your liking?
They appear to have done alot in the linux space to help gain adoption, and also help Debian development along the way.
Linux mint seems to be a popular alternative but is still based largely on Ubuntu anyway.

Ive tried out Kubuntu and i cant say I can really complain about it.

I really just want to find a distro that works well and has good support.
Ive always played around with Debian over the years, and Red Hat back in the early 2000s.
Debian and its derivatives seem to be what most distros are based on these days, so is likely a good idea to use something based on Debian.

Purism tried to do the thing you seem to be dreaming of, with the Librem 5.
Look where it got them:
https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019...ibrem-5-part-1 of 3

Pine64 might have similar products (and similar potential customers) but a very different business model. They might be making less money than Purism, but they don't piss their people off and don't seem to be on the verge of bankruptcy either.

Yes, it's a "specialty phone". Nothing wrong with that, the niche is large enough to allow for some business. Yay to pine64.

About your RANT:
Let me answer with my timeline:
When I started using Android I did it fairly mainstreamly, then I started to uninstall apps I don't use, then I started replacing other apps with FOSS apps, then I installed LineageOS/Android because it's a better fit for my use case then I started tweaking that to make it spill less data etc. etc.
My phone usage has changed over time.
I could never live without a properly set up email client on my phone, yet to my unceasing surprise that's exactly what most people do nowadays.
I can live without "social" media on my phone, I wouldn't even want it.
Now, with this set of expectations and usage habits, I suddenly realised I don't need Android at all. SailfishOS does it very well for me atm, without Android support (they do offer that though) and evtl. I'll be happy to use e.g. Maemo Leste or whatever emerges meanwhile on suitable hardware.
Now on SailfishOS I sorely miss OsmAnd, the app I probably used most on my latest Android phones. Native map applications exist for SailfishOS, but I just can't get used to them. Then I remembered that it took me years to fully benefit from OsmAnd, and I'm actually giving those native apps a chance, and lo and behold, they can replace OsmAnd! As often the case with FOSS, I have 2 or 3 of them installed because they have strengths and weaknesses in different areas.

Your demands OTOH seem to be skipping some steps and appears unrealistic anyhow.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to a mainstream true GNU/Linux phone, except for companies jumping on that train and ending up alienating potential and actual customers and pushing out a near-useless product.
Pine64's business model works because of those aspects you seem to be criticising, not despite them.

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