Hello.

First a little bit of background... I am a senior in high school, and I've been using Linux on and off for the past few years. Every time I installed a distro I convinced myself that I'd forget Windows and use Linux primarily, but various problems that I couldn't solve and my reliance on certain Windows programs for school has caused me to keep giving up. However, I'll be heading off to college next year and buying a laptop to take with me, and now seems like the perfect time to set up the best system possible and transition over to Linux (considering I'll be leaving my current desktop system behind).

Right now I'm in the process of trying to decide what laptop to buy and how to set it up. Since I want Linux to work as well as possible with the hardware running it, I wanted to ask everyone what recommendations they'd give me. Below I'll include what I'd want in the "perfect" system. Obviously I can't have everything I want and this machine probably doesn't exist, but I'd like any suggestions as to what might come close. Thanks in advance! (By the way, money isn't part of the process yet... I just want to see what's available and then I'll see what I can afford.)

A few disclaimers... I am aware that this question has been asked in the past, but I do have a few specifics I'm looking for so I thought I'd start a new thread. Finally, I haven't owned a laptop before and haven't done a lot of research at this point so excuse my ignorance on some issues.

In no particular order:
1. Two things are a priority with this machine. First, I'd like the hardware to be as compatible as possible with Linux so as little extra tweaking and setup is required. Instead of playing around with Linux as I have in the past I want to set this up as my permanent system for college, and I want to eliminate any excess workarounds that I can avoid now by choosing different hardware. Second, I will be keeping this laptop for the next four years, and I don't want it to be completely obsolete by then. It doesn't have to be bleeding-edge, but it would be nice to have something that will easily last four years.

Now some of the specifics:

2. I'd like a fairly fast processor... something 1.8 or above would be nice.

3. It seems like applications are eating up more and more ram, so 512 minimum for that.

4. A floppy drive... I've seen desktop system without floppies now and I don't care if they will be phasing out in the future, floppies still have plenty of uses for me

5. I see new laptops now come with combination CD-readers/CD-writers/DVD-readers, and that would be great if possible. I've also heard that drives exist that do all of the above plus burn DVDs, but I'm not sure if that's an option on laptops.

6. I'd like a rather large hard drive although I'm not so much into music or video editing that I require gigs of space. Anything over 40 should be fine for me.

7. Another important thing... I'll be using this to access both the campus ethernet system and a wireless LAN, so I need to have both a normal 10-100 connection in addition to some sort of wireless LAN card. Again, I don't know much about laptops in this area, and I assume all come with those PCMCIA ports where you can add these things, but I just wanted to make sure.

8. Lots of USB 2.0. The trend seems to be towards USB with devices.

9. A modem might be useful, but not necessary (a modem that works with Linux, that is)

10. I'm not sure what my options are regarding the operating system, and I know a few companies provide laptops set up for Linux already (but probably not the version and distro I'd want). I want to have Windows sitting on a partition in case there are any OS-specific programs I ever need to use, but there's no way I'm getting near XP. If this machine comes with Windows on it, it would be great to get 2000, but I don't know if anyone does that anymore.

11. On to the real OS question... I've used and liked Slackware in the past. I see that the latest version is set up with the 2.4 kernel. If I can squeeze in an extra question here, what is new in 2.6, will Slack come out with a new version soon with this kernel, or is it best to go with the current version and upgrade (or just leave it alone)?

That's all that I can think of right now. I've never shopped for a laptop before and have no idea where to start or how compatible they tend to be with Linux systems. Rather than following some TV ad, going online, buying something that looks right, and discovering some key part won't work with Linux, I thought I'd ask here to get some pointers. If there is some perfect system with everything I included above that someone can point me to that would be great, but I'm more realistically asking for just a few tips as to how I should start looking for a laptop and what to keep in mind as far as Linux is concerned.

Thanks all in advance,
Johnathan

I have been using an HP pavilion ze5185.

2.4Gz P4 CPU
512MB RAM
Floppy, CDROM/CDRW/DVD built in. DVDRW would be an option.
60GB HD
Built in 10/100 ethernet

I bought a Blitzz Wireless Cardbus adapter at Wal-Mart for under $40. I also have a Linksys WPC11 ver. 4 that works, although it has a range problem. Bad card, not the OS, It's the same in Windows and Linux. There are several choices with wireless. If you can get a card that has native Linux support then you should. Both of mine use winxp drivers with a wrapper program. There is a free one called ndiswrapper or one for $20 from Linuxant.

3 USB ports, hubs are available for a modest price if your going hog wild with USB stuff. I got one from Wal-Mart and it worked fine for my cordless mouse receiver, gps, and cell phone.

Built in conexant modem, using Linuxant driver. Driver was $20.

Came with WinXP Home and a set of restore disks.

I have tried a few distros in an attempt to get it all working. The 2.6 kernel is not needed to get everything working on this laptop.

I recently installed SuSE 9.0 and everything works flawlessly with the default 2.4 kernel.

A few other things about the HP...

The touchpad wheel which is not really a wheel but works like one (It's awesome) had problems with 2.6 kernel, well actually it's not the wheel, but the tapping that is a problem. Hence the wheel thing is useless. Works great now.

Screen brightness control through the fn+f1 & f2 keys was hard to get to work on some kernels. It works now.

3D works on the ATI Mobility Card. The card is low on RAM and too slow for some of the newer 3D stuff.

The install of SuSE had a wierd keyboard problem. Some keys did not work right. After install it was ok. This could cause a problem with the root password. Setting it to something simple in lower case should work. You can change it after you reboot.

It works out of the box, no kernel recompile.

There are no Serial ports on this unit. I got a couple from Best Buy that uses the prolific USB serial driver.

The screen is 15" and supports 1400x1050. Looks great! If your going to be using a smaller screen size then you should get one that has that max size. LCD screens seem to work better at their natural screen size.

I have not used the firewire, or Ir ports. I assume they work well as they are detected and modules are loaded without a problem.


Basically everything works better with Linux on this machine. Without the manufacturer drivers windows is a pain to install on this machine. I did install XP Pro but I went back to the one that came with it.

Dual booting is easy. I had to create partitions for Diagnostics, and Windows. Then I used the restore disk. It left me with the free space for Linux.

We have a laptop at work I want to try Linux on. It's a Pro Star or something like that. Has two 3GHz CPUS and 3 55GB scsi drives.

Any Distro should work the same but some are going to require more work than others.


Good Luck!

Not sure if this will answer all of your questions, but here is my setup:

Slackware 9.1 / Fluxbox 0.1.14
Dell Inspiron 8200 / P4 Mobile 1.60GHz
Nvidia GeForce2 Go / Crystal WDM Audio
30GB HD / 256MB RAM

If I were to buy a brand new laptop then I would go with a Dell - hands down. There was a little tweaking to get the resolution right at max (1400x1050) which required the latest nVidia driver and a fine tuned XF86Config file - but I now use a USB mouse w/ scroll wheel and the touchpad and keyboard joystick work too.

As for apps (which was my initial hurdle) - here is what I used to use on XP and what I now use on Slackware 9.1 with Fluxbox as my WM.

Email Client: Outlook -> Mozilla Thunderbird
Browser: Internet Explorer -> Mozilla Firefox
Instant Message: Gaim -> Gaim
FTP Client: Filezilla -> gFTP
Graphics App: Photoshop -> The Gimp
Text Editor: Crimson Editor -> jEdit
Music: Winamp -> xmms
Video: Quicktime/Media Player -> MPlayer
Word Processor: MS Word -> Abiword
Spreadsheet: MS Excel -> Gnumeric

Will I go back? - no.
Do I still have a Win box - yes, for gaming.

Good luck and hold onto my email address if you end up getting a Dell and need help on the tweaks.

iBook G3 hands down. Everything works on mine. I have a 12.1" 900mhz/640mb ram, dvd/cdwr, NIC, Airport Wireless, modem, 2 usb and a firewire port, and a 40gb hard drive and a 4 hour battery life.

Don't let the 900mhz fool you, PowerPC chips cant be compared with x86 simply by the frequency. It is quite spunky. And again, everything works on it with little configuration. You could throw Yellow Dog on here and probably do no configuration, but Gentoo is a superior choice. Compiled and optimized specifically for the hardware with only the apps you need and it will be very speedy.

The G4 is not yet fully supported. Most importantly, the Airport Extreme is not, so the G3 with the original Airport is a bit easier. Though some users have set up a G4 and just used a wireless card.

I reviewed this laptop in the HCL (link at bottom of my post) and there is some more info there including a link to a web page with all the configuration info you might need.

I know you said Windows, but schools usually require a windows OR mac pc (depending on your major) and both Linux and Mac OS are superior to windows so.... The hardware is also top notch.

Just my two cents

Thanks for the info so far. Just a few more things to put into the picture... I have worked with Macs in the past and understand their advantages, but I'm just so used to working with PCs right now I'd prefer to go with something that comes with Windows. I've looked around and I can't find anyone that offers 2000 as a substitute for XP... does this exist? I'm not going to donate $300 to Microsoft just because I want to choose the lesser of two evils. Also, has anyone had experience with this company: http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lc2430.html. I wouldn't be using the distros that they provide but it looks like all the hardware is guaranteed to work well with Linux...I'm just a little hesistant to buy something from a company that I haven't heard anything about.

Finally, it looks like I will be putting a price limit of about $2300 on this, so I'm now focusing on something in that price range. I've heard great things about Dell, HP, IBM, Toshiba, etc., but what makes one better than the others? Do I just pick a brand and go from there? There has to be some way to make this decision intelligently.

One last question: What kind of processor speed and ram will I need for Linux if I'm not using it for anything out of the ordinary (high-graphics video editing, processor-intensive applications, etc.), and just using the computer for day to day tasks? I'm not that familiar with the demands of Linux software (although from what I've seen in the past it is much less than Windows). Will 512 RAM and 1.6 Ghz be fine for the next four years?

Thanks again,
Johnathan

I have read good things about linuxcertified from many members here at the forums and elsewhere. At least all the hardware is guarenteed to be compatible with Linux, but IMO they are really pricey. There are laptops out there that all work with Linux for cheaper but you'll have to do a little work. It's up to you if it's worth the extra $$$ for ease of configuration or not.

As for finding a new laptop with 2000 preinstalled, it's not likely. Not impossible I suppose, but...

As far as general hype, Dell IBM and HP laptops seem to be the most popular choice among Linux users and look to be fair as far as compatibility goes. I don't hear much of Toshiba around here. Basically, you'll have to shop around, find something you like, then Google the hell out of it with some *nix keywords thrown in to see what types of problems others have had running Linux on them. That's how I decided on the iBook.

Linux will be right at home on a 1.6ghz/512mb laptop for a long time to come. People are running it on old PIII's with 256mb's quite comfortably and in some cases even less than that (while sacrificing some eye candy and such though). I love Fluxbox and use it exclusively, and most times I am using below 100mb's of ram with multiple apps running.

Best of luck to you!

Oh! Check out the laptop section of the HCL right here at LQ to read what some users think of different models.

Thanks again for the tips. I've read nothing but good things about IBM (and I have looked at the HCL and another page about compatibility), but it seems I've seen a lot about HP and Dell doing weird things with BIOS and not being compatible as some other brands. I'm glad you mentioned Fluxbox too, after playing around with many WMs I decided that was the one I liked the most, and it's good to hear that everything will work fine.

I do like the way the IBM laptops look (although that probably shouldn't be my #1 priority), and I've heard very good things about them so I started searching around the site. The T41 Thinkpad seemed to fit well with everything I was looking for, but the price wound up being $2,600. Is that what I'll have to pay for a 1.7 processor, 512 ram, cd-rw/dvd drive, etc. system? Is it priced that high because the system is very high quality, or because it is a brand name, or because there are some big features in there that I didn't see. For example, I've heard very good things about the Pentium M processors running cool and taking up little battery power and I saw that was on that system but not on some others.

One last thing... I don't believe that system has a floppy drive. Is that common in laptops? I guess I'd be fine without floppies but they seem to be useful for transfering small files or booting from, etc. I don't want to have to create bootable CD-Rs to do any of that. I know I can get a USB drive but I'm just wondering why the change.

-Johnathan

I bought mine last year for about $1700.


I just discovered that the keyboard issue is not with the laptop. It does the same thing on my desktop. Not a problem, just something on the floppy image kernel I guess.

You might want to look at apple just to see what they have. I'm getting a PowerBook next week, and it has everything you mentioned you wanted (even the DVD Burner). I'm going to be running YellowDog Linux to start, and possably shift over to Gentoo. I'll dual boot it to OS X (which is now bas on BSD if you didn't know), but not often. Another added bonus is that you wouldn't be paying Microsoft as you mentioned in a reply.

just food for thought,

- dan

I hadn't thought about that lack of the Microsoft tax and I'll take a look at the macs. Right now I'm looking at the HP site and a few more questions came up. First, how big of a deal is shared video memory vs. dedicated? Second, is this Pentium M processor as big a deal as they make it out to be? I've heard that it doesn't get as hot, takes much less battery power, etc. If I had to choose between an Intel M 1.7 and Pentium 4 3.2, is the M going to be so much better that the big speed difference doesn't matter? I've read descriptions from the manufacturers' sites, but I'd like to get an objective view on the matter.

Thanks again,
Johnathan

You said you have Crystal WDM Audio for sound.

How did you get that to work with Linux?

Here is what I have in my notes:

*************************************************************
Open up a terminal window and type su and hit enter.
You'll be prompted for a password - type the su password (it should be root's password)
To set the volume levels type alsamixer and hit enter.
When you are done hit the [ESC] key to go back to the prompt
To save the volume changes type alsactl store

To get the CDROM audio ready, edit the /etc/fstab file and change owner to users (users should be your users default group.)

From:
/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom iso9660 noauto,owner,ro 0 0
To:
/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom iso9660 noauto,users,ro 0 0

Now edit the /etc/group file and add your user to the disk, users, and sys groups.

*************************************************************

Im not sure if this is a very great idea but.. an idea never the less :

burn slax or knoppix or something on a CD. Preferrably both. Go to a store and ask them if you can test out the laptops, reboot in linux and check everythin and see how it works...

my friend's laptop [compaq i think...] keyboard doesn't work with Slackware or Slax..

perhaps do that as the final test for a laptop. Even if you're buying online, you could probably find that laptop at a retail store [ie. best buy]

GLAGH!

I purchased an IBM thinkpad about 9 months ago (R40) and I have been very happy with it. If you are looking at the Tx line, it would be a little lighter than mine, but mine is pretty fast with the 1.3ghz pentium M processor and it gets very good battery time. With the newer kernels I have not had any real problems getting ACPI to work correctly, which was th eonly compatibility problem I had when I first purchased the machine (which kinda sucked since the processor would run in the slowest mode all the time..... but thats anotehr story).

Anyway, I would highly recomend the IBM line. For most users 1.7ghz from a pentium M will be plenty (my 1.3 is faster than my athlon xp 2200+ system in cpu-bound task, the main bottle neck is the hdd which is going to be the case for most laptops ... if I am doing something that has to read to disk alot, my desktop will thrash it and there is nothing special about my desktop drives (7200 ata100 drives). If you have the option for a faster hdd w/o shelling out alot of acsh I would say it is worth it.

When I bought mine, 2000 pro was availible instead of xp....but it was not much cheaper. Don't know if this is still the case as I havent looked at them in a while.

DVD-R/RW are availible on most laptops, but will be more expensive (of course!). From what I understand, the 2.6 kernel will not be in slackware 10 (which is coming out soon...release canidate 2 is out now). The 2.6 kernel is supposed to have better ACPI support and usb support as well as a more user-friendly scheduler that should make a desktop system more responsive. I donno where it will be before you are off to college, but if you need the new features a kernel upgrade might not be a bad idea.

In another of the posts you mentioned the P4 3.2 vs the pentium M 1.7. The 3.2 will probably be a little faster than the 1.7....but not by much....maybe not at all. The pentium M chip I have is alittle older so I can't really give you an honest comparison there (if you have a newer dothan based model which i *think* has 2 mb cache you shouldnt have anything to worry about). If you do go with the 3.2 (or any desktop processor), keep in mind it is a desktop processor and it will KILL your battery time. With my centrino system I can get 5+ hours off a pretty small bettery (entire system is about 5.5lbs and a T series is like 4.x) without much trouble (although I do turn down the lcd brightness). If you are planning on taking it to class, you will notice the differance in 4.xlb and 7.x lbs and msot of the desktop systems I have looked at have trouble running more than 2 hours.

UPDATE:
I looked at the IBM webpage and it doesn't look like you can get win 2k anymore. Sorry :P Also, going with one of the thinkpad express programs and adding on memory is usally cheaper than building your own through them.

Wow, behold the power of a simple search!!!

I found a thread that is exactly what I need........ with some modifications

I, like the thread starter am in the market for a laptop for college.

I want to dual boot, windoze... for those ummm rare instances.

I just need some opinions on Winbook a140 laptops, its on sale at microcenter, i'm also eyeing toshibas and maybe even a compaq/hp, i would like to keep costs low while still getting a large hard drive, and expandable memory that will last me through my 4 years of undergrad at Xavier

shane