The Brand New UltraMegaSuper "Which Distro" Thread

thejasondean - I have merged your thread into the "Which Distro" megathread.

I have some needs to fulfill when choosing a distro.
I have tried a few last year (SuSE, Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo)

1. I don't mind writing some scripts to automate stuff. So, text-based configuration is at times preferable.

2. I would like to create a install dvd that has all the software my friends would want. Gentoo has possibilities.

3. Prefer software unmodified by the distro (As said of Slackware)

4. Maximum software availability. So I don't feel like missing out.

5. Good help/support group (Gentoo seems good.)

6. Good dependency checking when my friends install stuff. (I might not have time in the future)

7. Distro with enough popularity / survival potential.

8. Non-commercial. Commercial-based distros seem to change directions all the time.

I am torn between Ubuntu and Gentoo. I know the best is to try both but I would like some pointers. Who knows, there might be something better than these two.

Most distro advice is based on what might be good to "you". In my case, it is more about my friends, my father's office, and all others that I end up trouble-shooting for.

Gentoo's don't release a DVD package and you have to select and download. On the other hand, Ubuntu substantially changes the desktop. And there is no guarantee their software selection would be perfect for my needs. In fact, I intend to make a DVD that contains the additional media formats (not illegal here). The advantage of Ubuntu is I might test software more easily as no compile is required.

Any pointers?

To get this thing really simply and basic ...

If everyone just used Slackware Linux there would be no more which distro threads, no more need for asking so many questions about how and where you did this and that, no more senseless posts by newbies that "I installed Linux-9.1", and just a whole lot of things would be much easier.

Plus, everyone would then be using the best Linux distro, and all the developement would be going into one place.

This would solve immeasurable problems that have been created by all these silly little distros; especially all those commercial ones which hack the scripts and kernels until you can hardly tell what it does anymore.

For example, what if there were 200+ different Linux kernels? Can you imagine? Most people would have nothing but a piece of junk OS.

And since Slackware Linux is the oldest Linux distribution, it just goes without saying (so I won't) that all other distros are cheap imitations of The Real Thing (TM).

If everyone just used Slackware Linux there would be no more Windoze desktop ruling the computer world, either. Because we'd all get our good, stable, rock solid Linux boxen working together and all the software developers could concentrate on one thing.

But, alas, there are those who don't see the light.

Amen.......

Originally Posted by Chinaman To get this thing really simply and basic ... If everyone just used Slackware Linux there would be no more which distro threads, no more need for asking so many questions about how and where you did this and that, no more senseless posts by newbies that "I installed Linux-9.1", and just a whole lot of things would be much easier.

Those senseless posts would be replaced by "swaret broke my..." threads.

Originally Posted by Chinaman Plus, everyone would then be using the best Linux distro, and all the developement would be going into one place. This would solve immeasurable problems that have been created by all these silly little distros; especially all those commercial ones which hack the scripts and kernels until you can hardly tell what it does anymore.

How long would it be before developers forked into RedSlack, SluSE, Slubuntu, DSS (Damn Small Slack), and Lindows (can't be forked from Slackware directly.)

Originally Posted by Chinaman And since Slackware Linux is the oldest Linux distribution, it just goes without saying (so I won't) that all other distros are cheap imitations of The Real Thing (TM).

You contradicted youself, but since you spoke the truth I will let you get away with it this time.

Originally Posted by Chinaman If everyone just used Slackware Linux there would be no more Windoze desktop ruling the computer world, either. Because we'd all get our good, stable, rock solid Linux boxen working together and all the software developers could concentrate on one thing.

Oh, I see you've been smoking crack again. Is it time for another intervention?

Originally Posted by Chinaman But, alas, there are those who don't see the light.

Smoke Slack, not Crack.
Smoke Slack, not Crack.

Praise Bob!

BIG

Originally Posted by Franklin Those senseless posts would be replaced by "swaret broke my..." threads.

Real Slackers don't use swaret. They compile from source
using SlackBuild scripts -- not from LinuxPackages, either.

And since Slackware Linux is the oldest Linux distribution, it just goes without saying (so I won't) that all other distros are cheap imitations of The Real Thing (TM).

Debian is about the same age as Slack, and equally flexible, but it gives you more choices about how "hands-on" you wish to be.

While these two distros are the only "good" choices, Debian has moved beyond the tribal environment (centered around one person) to the corporate. When Pat has gone out of the picture, and Slackware proves it can survive without him, I'll be more convinced of it's viability.

This is probably one of the most asked questions in this forum, but I think it's one of the coolest that can be asked. I don't imagine a similar question often gets asked in Windows forums. It gets tiresome at times, especially when we all know Gentoo is the answer, but at least we have options.

Originally Posted by rickh Debian has moved beyond the tribal environment (centered around one person) to the corporate.

I believe you should have used the word "autocratic" for Slackware,
versus "democratic" for Debian.

Originally Posted by rickh Debian is about the same age as Slack, and equally flexible, but it gives you more choices about how "hands-on" you wish to be.

Slackware is a commercial distro. Debian is supported by the community. There's a big difference.

Originally Posted by rickh While these two distros are the only "good" choices, Debian has moved beyond the tribal environment (centered around one person) to the corporate.

Debian in the corporate environment? I'd love to see that. At this point, the corporates seem more interested in RedHat or Suse.

Originally Posted by rickh When Pat has gone out of the picture, and Slackware proves it can survive without him, I'll be more convinced of it's viability.

Like the time he got sick and Slackware was being maintained by someone else? This was only a couple of years back.

I wish this thread is stickied right in the main entrance. I took hours to find this site and thread.

Even when considering only the popular distros, there are a lot of them to choose from. After thinking about what Chinaman said, I feel most distros want a sort of lock-in. Not as bad as proprietry unix, but somewhat along the line where a corporation that has installed SuSE is limited to calling for support from people well-versed in SuSE.

I had downloaded many a iso and installed them. All the difference I see is the desktop layout, control panel (eg yast). What is the point of learning Yast when it is worthless on another distro? Time aside, it is simply SILLY. Many a distro is developed with your grandma in mind. Unfortunately, they can ONLY be used by the grandma who never intends to tinker.

I want a lot. I want everything Linux has to offer. I want to learn. And I don't want to learn useless things. I don't move out from Windows, dumb Visual Basic, etc to get into another straigh-jacket. I want to re-learn. Re-learn standards.
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That leaves me with certain limitations. I want a tradition, just like Chinaman mentioned. But I don't agree it has to be Slackware (though I never tried it). All I know is, Debian, Gentoo and Slackware has meaningful philosophies within. Most other distros seem like a script files used on one of them. And once they mangle the file/folder layout, etc, anything you learn there is even less worth than learning Windows.

So, what are the 'original' distros with strong design philosophies and tries its best to adhere to standards, and where once you learn something it would be useful in any standard-based distro?

I am a bit biased to Gentoo. There are a lot of flaws there and I think I shouldn't have needed weeks to learn it. Still, what I learnt there was worth it. How about the other distros? What is Slackware in these terms? How is Debian?

I do believe these are the questions most technically inclined newbies would like to know. I doubt the "Install distro X. It will be a breeze" is what we are really looking for. I hope the seniors would clarify.

Like I said yesterday, myah is the way to try out a lot of web design related programs, then go to the puppy linux and read about how to make your own puppy distro, then you have have tons of aps to pick and choose from and make your own web design distro, I'll be doing it over the next few weeks, just try myah live cd and maybe chubby puppy live cd on a cdrw and get a feel for the aps and linux itself, then make your own Frankenstein puppy linux and if not well At least i can sleep at night knowing i tried, but using over bloated linux distros like suse,redhat, etc is like using vista instead of xp for web design, why have everything installed and slowing your work and having a pc that crawls instead of running new speed records, always remember more is less and less is more, well when it comes to pc's and speed and reliability, Look at one bone puppy linux well thats 28megs and thats it, but really try chubby puppy its full of goodies, then when you make your own their is a step by step directions for puppy, looks easy Puppy Unleashed is the base for this and they have T2 now for it compiled in over 600 packages you can pick and choose from, well good luck and have fun.

Originally Posted by chola3 I want a tradition, just like Chinaman mentioned. But I don't agree it has to be Slackware (though I never tried it). All I know is, Debian, Gentoo and Slackware has meaningful philosophies within.

Put very briefly, Debian's philosophy is gfreedom (i.e. freedom in the sense of GNU), Slackware's philosophy is stability and KISS, and Gentoo is DYI.

Originally Posted by chola3 I am a bit biased to Gentoo. There are a lot of flaws there and I think I shouldn't have needed weeks to learn it. Still, what I learnt there was worth it. How about the other distros? What is Slackware in these terms? How is Debian?

In how far is learning Portage different from learning YaST? According to your own words, it is just as useless because only one distro uses it. The same goes, to a lesser extend though, for Debian's very complete config tools. To a lesser extend because so many distros are based on Debian. Still, they are not everywhere.

Slackware is very minimalistic and very flexible. I'm not saying it is the best distro, it has its problems as well. But if your criteria is to learn the basics and to be very flexible, it is certainly worth to learn it.

And for me personally, it was the only reason to stay with Linux, after trying SuSE, Gentoo, Debian. Otherwise, I'd have gone back to FreeBSD.

Originally Posted by uselpa In how far is learning Portage different from learning YaST? According to your own words, it is just as useless because only one distro uses it. The same goes, to a lesser extend though, for Debian's very complete config tools. To a lesser extend because so many distros are based on Debian. Still, they are not everywhere.

As I have said, I had tried Linux last year but left it alone due to lack of time. This time, I am really searching the correct distro which I can use for some time to learn thing Linux thing.

I was comparing the whole day (daytime here in Malaysia) between Debian, Slackware and Gentoo. (Ubuntu is also a reasonable choice)

BTW, Portage is not the same as Yast. Yast is a control panel for everything. Portage is just packet management.

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From my search, the following points which makes me feel more towards Gentoo:
(Note that I intend to advocate my choice to others; and considering just Desktop)

Cons:
-Install/compile time.
-Portage is specific to Gentoo. Slackware's "make && .." is of course the universal way.

Pros:
+Reasonable Package Management:
I can handle Slackware but it would be too much hassle when given to others.
Compared to others (except Debian), they have a big repository (just wrapping the source maybe the reason)
The missing "make && .." command is not really hard to learn anyway.

+No Package configuration:
Slackware is better but Gentoo comes quite close. Unlike others, gentoo just puts a wrapper on the sources; no mods, and up-to-date repository.

+Upgrading:
Continous upgrading. No need to install a 'next' version. So, I don't need to go around hand-holding people and re-installing stuff (provided I did it correctly the first time; of course)

+Documentation:
Easy to find. (Ubuntu is NOT easy to find and tips are scattered all over)

+Updates:
System-wide and easy (time - a matter of letting it do at night)

+Text-based configuration:
I admit Slackware is unbeatable. Still, I will learn of all kind of variables that tend to cause problems/headaches.
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In Slackware, I am worried about centralised and updated repository of sufficient size.
Debian is looking at totally open software. The stable version is quite old. And they configure it a lot. Not practical for my case.

If for my own use, I am convinced of Slackware. But I feel now that Gentoo gives me the middle ground; of learning a lot of linux, and at the same time advocating to others a O/S that is going to be up-to-date for a long time and have enough software in a convenient format. (Of course, I intend to make a well-commented script that will provide a good initial installation).

It might seem funny to advocate Gentoo to new users. However, coming from Windows, compile time is not really an issue. It takes hours of MY time to install a proper WinXP system with all the proper software and settings. If I have a proper script and automate the same in Linux, who cares if my friend's pc needs 2 days to install!!

Looking forward to comments. Especially uselpa since you had actually used Gentoo and know better than me about what I am talking about

Originally Posted by chola3 BTW, Portage is not the same as Yast. Yast is a control panel for everything. Portage is just packet management.

I was referring to the fact that they are both distro-specific tools and not universal.

Originally Posted by chola3 Cons: -Install/compile time.

Yes, that is a big con in my opinion and the reason I left FreeBSD. While compiling is feasible and makes sense on a server, I find it stange to have my laptop to run for 20 hours because a KDE update is out.

Originally Posted by chola3 Portage is specific to Gentoo. Slackware's "make && .." is of course the universal way.

Slackware also has a basic package management. There are only a few package managers that can be called more or less universal, namely rpm and deb. That's why LPIC requires you to learn both. So that is a draw between Slackware and Gentoo.

Originally Posted by chola3 I can handle Slackware but it would be too much hassle when given to others.

When you create your own Slackware packages, everybody else can install them with a single command within seconds. That's less of a hassle than having to emerge it, even if it's your own ebuild.

Originally Posted by chola3 Compared to others (except Debian), they have a big repository (just wrapping the source maybe the reason) The missing "make && .." command is not really hard to learn anyway.

Basically true, a big repo is interesting, and Slackware doesn't have that. But that's by design, Slackers tend to create their own packages. The only person they trust is Pat. BTW, Linuxpackages is the gathering place for heretics, I occasionally can be found there as well

Originally Posted by chola3 Slackware is better but Gentoo comes quite close. Unlike others, gentoo just puts a wrapper on the sources; no mods, and up-to-date repository.

The fundamental difference is stability vs bleeding-edge. Slackware is very stable, just what I wanted after using Windows. You can follow the unstable branch (called -current) but I don't. But even then, you know that plenty of people and Pat have the same config and will all work together to improve it.

OTOH, Gentoo is a meta-distro and as such no two people have the same config. So you're bascially on your own if you have a problem with a certain set of software.

But if you want to give your packages to others, having a common and very well tested base is a real advantage.

Originally Posted by chola3 Continous upgrading. No need to install a 'next' version. So, I don't need to go around hand-holding people and re-installing stuff

You can do the same with Slackware if you follow -current.

Originally Posted by chola3 +Documentation: Easy to find.

No doubt about that, Gentoo rocks. I know that a lot of Slackers also refer to it regularily.

Originally Posted by chola3 +Updates: System-wide and easy (time - a matter of letting it do at night)

That's OK for servers, but is it for desktops? And do you have the slightest conviction that your desktop will be operational the next day?

So I think it that between Gentoo and Slackware, it basically comes down to "guaranteed" stability vs. the ultimate flexibility. Slackware is a solid ground to build on, while Gentoo allows you to design your own ground.

Again, Gentoo is a meta-distro, Slackware is a distro. That's the main difference in my opinion.