ncrfgs, I think the IP they're talking about may be code that they've licenses from other companies. As in, it's not their's to release and doing so would put them in legal trouble with whoever licensed them the original code. If they owned all the code they probably wouldn't be citing IP as their primary reason for not going opensource but from their response it sounds like who ever licensed them the code they're using doesn't want it shared.

But what have they licensed? From who? I think the story of the IP problems is just a fairy tale they use every time they have to deal with this touchy subject... An easy exit way that people easy believe in. After all, we are talking about a huge company with a lot of influence. What kind of "evil" little company is preventing them to make their drivers and specification Free and Open? They likely have enough money to buy it all...

An interesting question would be: if you didn't have these kind of IP problems would you make your drivers and hardware specifications Free and Open? I can guess the answer...

The decision to support Linux better than the competition has won be back into the nVidia camp. I used to like their products a lot and owned TNT, TNT2, GeForce, GeForce2MX cards. However, when it was time to upgrade again a year or so ago, I decided to go ATI in the future because the great reviews they had been getting (unlike the reviews for the first GeForce5s which were less than stellar), and I like to support the underdog. So I got a Radeon 9800 All-in-wonder.

Frames per second etc were good under Windows, but the Windows drivers were slightly buggy, and I eventually gave up completely on getting even the basic functions like X to work decently under Linux (not to mention openGL acceleration or MythTV). So I used my old GeForce2MX when working under Linux, and when I felt like playing games, I had to open my chassi and switch cards before I could boot to Windows. This quickly became a chore. Also, the nVidia drivers for Linux kept getting better, and nVidia seemed to fix the flaws in GeForce5. ATI in the meanwhile completely ignored the Linux market. So now I have ordered a GeForce 5200 card, and as soon as it arrives my Radeon is going to go on the shelf and gather dust, unless a friend wants it.

Yes, however, as a recent real newbie to linux and refugee from the windowboxes, even using an easy distro like Suse, I found it hard to cope with getting manufacturer's stuff and installing it. In fact to date I have not succeeded (!)

Until I just read this interview I had nvidia stuff down as a definate nogo no-no! I would have gone to much effort to either change a card or even choose another mainboard to *avoid* nvidia.

When installing a distro (eg suse) as a real newbie, if the kit does not *work* at all with the first install - because of nvidia for example - I would likely put off getting to linux for another year (!)

Fortunately I did not have the problem, but the install notes in the distro have a caveat for nvidia, and it will be some long time before I have enough experience to confidently use something like a closed source driver.

The compromise suggestion you made is very important - there must be *something* open source or free with distros, and something of higher quality from nvidia, protected.

I have no problem at all with IP and maybe paying for ip stuff, I just do not have the experience (yet) to make use of it.

And if it is difficult to get to use nvidia products I simply would make choices to avoid them, and so would many other newbies. Make it easy to start with, with closed source stuff available as special.

LarsWestergren,

If you would like to sell that ATI Radeon card of yours, please let me know and we can talk. If you need an email address, let me know that too.

I found Mandrake 10.1beta shipped with the closed source 6111 driver and wondered if deeper issues scare off other distros, but I can't see any. May be the distros don't relish supporting those drivers, SuSE for example provides for nvidia drivers to be downloaded and installed of part of an upgrade or install, this seems reasonable as there is nothing they can change in them and it also gives the opportunity to download the very latest.

I know the "nv" driver doesn't support 3D acceleration. If I'm not doing any 3D ops, is there any reason to switch from the "nv" driver? If I just use the "nv" driver, do I get 2D acceleration?

i'm sure there marketing guys/gals and competitors have seen that interview. well,, i would expect them too. it's part of doing there job. wich would result in planting the seed that a simple mention on the box what there product will funtion with will boost the comfort of the linux-using costomer as he/she walks along the selves at the computer store, trying to deside wether or not he/she is willing to deal with the frustration of there purchase working properly or at all or spending time and brain operations to whip up there own driver to make the darn thing work. and this aplies to all hardware/periferals and there respetive manufacturers....

if they except this very real and usfull marketing tool, it would boost there sales, make us happy and support the reality of linux desirability.

as far as open source, i would rather they keep there trade secrets. i prefer nvidia over the others for performance, price and a few other resons that don't need to be said on this forum. i whant them to prosper and continue producing good/better stuff.

but as the rest of us can all agrea on, I WHANT MY OS OPEN SOURCE! and it's aplications....

and a message for the nvidia folks. I Love You.

I said that IP would be their first and biggest concern if they were licensing code from other companies, not their only concern. And the company they're licensing from probably isn't a "evil little" company but a software company that makes most of it's money from licensing code to companies like nVidia. Programmers need to eat too, if you starve us all to death all you'll get is an expensive metal box that can blink some LEDs, makes some beeps and get hot. W/o programmers your computer is useless so don't try to kill us all by taking away legitimate sources of income. I believe in Open-Source but I also believe that people have to eat to live and you honestly don't need (or even want) EVERYTHING to be open-source. So long as the US is making the mistake of pairing Democracy with Capitalism we're all forced to live by the Capitalist rule of Money = Power.

Hey, installing Nvidia's drivers for SuSE is incredibly easy. Just go to YOU (same as Windows Update), click on Nvidia Driver, then click finish and it will download and install it. Then go into YaST, Hardware, Graphics Card and Monitor and select your exact Nvidia model and it is as simple as that.

As I work at a company, I can appreciate NVIDIA's stance on the OpenSource software issue. I think the problems that NVIDIA are facing, are surely outside NVIDIA's control, and more a reflection of the general state of the competition in the video card market.

However, I can see this 'general state' of play changing. As more and more users are moving towards Linux, the lack of OpenSrc drivers from gfx companies (who simply will not be able to devote enough time and effort to develop drivers like an open source community could), will anger / affect more end - users, and perhaps in the future, graphics card / other hardware companies will begin to be almost forced to write Open Software. It only takes one giant ATI / NVIDIA to take the plunge, before it becomes accepted, and a MUST for any competitor entering the market.

One thing though, [in my opinion] it is of VITAL importance, that the Linux community, does not just sit there and accept closed source drivers without giving a proper fight, the more closed drivers / companies are about their hardware/software, the less poossible it is for the wonderful community of talented enthusiasts we have, to work towards producing a system which is as stable, robust and bug free as possible - especially with the rapid changes in our OS (X, etc?) that are ongoing.

Just my two pence.

I really think that just the interest thats being shown in developing better products for linux is great news. i could be wrong, but i think linux is about to start taking larger and larger bites out of the market and eventually be another solid choice for an os for anybody and everybody alike.

On a side note:
I read recently that china is switching to linux for all of their computing needs. I also read that they are working with Hewlett-Packard to get their own build called "Asianix" I'd like to get a copy of that just to see what's up...too bad i don't speak chinese

Hi: I presently have a VooDOO 4/5 by 3Dtx interactive but can't get it to work with games like TuxKart in MEPIS although it did work on Xandros 2.0 . What card would you people recommend for a main stream user who doesn't play any games except BillardGL or TuxKart( my granddaughter). I am interested in multimedia such as pictures and video and movies. Was looking at a FX5700LE but l don't know a lot about the cards and what to look for. Any tips here would be great.

Wayne

I'm using the TI4200 cards in both my Suse boxes. Love the ease on installing the NVidia drivers - MUCH easier than on Mandrake (7.1 - 9.2). I've been very happy with them. The fact that the drivers are closed sourced doesn't bother me at all. I feel that the manufacturer who designed and produced the chipset knows best how to implement their product.

Installing drivers under Linux has always been a bone of contention with me. Generally, it's hard to impossible in most cases. Binaries that are easy to install is the only way Linux is going to become more popular on the desktop. Remember, most of the converts come from the Windows environment where most users are not Geeks. When Linux is as easy to install as Windows .....(minus the multiple re-boots, of course).

Another example is wirless drivers. Having to use a wrapper for a Windows driver is NOT my idea of an easy install. I'm a Geek, but I don't like a process where sometimes it takes, other times it doesn't, on the same machine. Just went through this on my laptop and a Netgear WG511 card. Works great, now. I would rather have the manufacturer produce commercial drivers!

Dave

One suggestion for you losers that can't even get a simple nvidia driver working RTFM! And a question for peep's that complain about nvidia drivers not shipping with linux, does winblows come with nvidia drivers? Answer No so, STFU.

Using Gentoo you just type "emerge nvidia-kernel" how much easier can it get?

Gentoo and Slackware pwnz Suse