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Obviously I have not watched 40,000+ hours of video but many of the supposed videos of Police waving people in have been debunked by Snopes, Politifact, CNN and others. A true threat is not protected by the 1st Amendment and if I was the VP that day I don't think I would want to find out if it was really true or not.
Ray Epps pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct on restricted grounds, was actually remorseful for the act versus others and received death threats after Republican members of Congress and conservative media spread false claims that he was an undercover agent.
Really don't need to watch 40,000hrs. The vids of waving people in are all over the net, an easy seach & watch.
IIRC, Epps was not initially charged even though his face was all over the vids, and then even at that I don't recall seeing Epps doing anything worthy of a crime. The whole Epps thing is bizarre, unless you help try to explain it with FBI involvement, then it makes sense. And it's known fact that the FBI has used baiting tactics numerous times in the past, and people have died because of it.
J6'ers made critical error, they did not wear masks and hoodies like they do in L.A. and NYC when doing smash & grabs. Perhaps lesson learned for the next go at it, as I hear the opponents of Trump want to block the certification if Trump wins.
Does not really matter who runs the Justice Dept, having a 2-tier justice system in US is what it is, and when the wrath comes from one color, the other color will eventually return the favor.
You can find all sorts of video clips trying to prove j6 was just a peaceful protest but video from only only one perspective does not actually prove the police was waving at the crowd. Right wing media spun the epps video clips into a conspiracy theory that he was a FBI agent.
You can find all sorts of video clips trying to prove j6 was just a peaceful protest but video from only only one perspective does not actually prove the police was waving at the crowd. Right wing media spun the epps video clips into a conspiracy theory that he was a FBI agent.
I can show you video of a flying saucer blowing up the white house, but you would know it was fake. It takes a lot more evidence than a doctored video or scene from an old movie to convince a judge, they tend to be a hard sell. The evidence of guilt in these cases is FAR more convincing, and anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to make a fool of you.
It's simple. If you broke a window, and you are of the wrong tribe, you go to prison for three years, ostensibly "awaiting trial." In the meantime, you are in solitary confinement.
Yeah, and who was that?
Honestly, I think you're mixing this up with with Kevin Mitnick's case. Kevin Mitnick actually did spend three years in jail awaiting trial.
I have a simple suggestion that might be perfectly palatable to some people here. That every single person who set foot anywhere near the Capitol should be arrested – based on geolocation data of your phone, we know who you are – and publiclyexecuted by firing squad on the Capitol steps. Guilty-as-charged for "insurrection." Firearms not required. You just picked the wrong day to walk into "the People's house."
And then, let's likewise arrest anyone who's still living from MLK's "I Have A Dream" gathering, which was held in the very same place. Shoot them all. Surely, this, too, was "insurrection."
But wait: the people who most-recently gathered in the very same place 'protesting' very-violently about "Gaza" must be given a pass.
Anyone who burned police stations and many other public buildings in the summer of 2020 ... causing billions of dollars' worth of actual damages ... sorry, that's "peaceful protest." Pass.
You get the idea. Fast-forward to "banana." Where you are guilty if 'they' say you are, and innocent if 'they' say you are. Therefore, "you'd better forget about the First Amendment and learn how to 'toe the line.'"
There were plenty of "Good Germans," and "Good Jews" in Warsaw, who didn'tobject when these things began to happen in their country. Please do not ignore "history books" and pretend, as they did, that "surely, such an evil thing could never happen here." Just climb into that boxcar and keep quiet.
Millions of people who didn't recognize, at the time, that "the risk is very real" ...
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 03-21-2024 at 08:26 AM.
Whatever the situation may be over there, we definitely have two-tier policing in the UK. Every Saturday for several months now, genocidal mobs have marched through the streets of London calling for the extermination of all Jews "from the River to the Sea" (i.e. throughout Israel) and the police have done absolutely nothing, not even when they projected their vile slogan onto the Houses of Parliament. But when one man holds up a placard saying "Hamas are terrorists", he gets arrested.
That every single person who set foot anywhere near the Capitol should be arrested
Almost, Those that crossed the barrier were illegally entering that space and therefore could be arrested.
The Capital building is not open to the public 24/7 and you do not have rights to be on public property when ever you want.
You can not compare the March on Washingtion with J6 rioting
Here is a famous quote in the Holocaust Memorial Museum which serve as an indictment of passivity and indifference.
Quote:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
I have a simple suggestion that might be perfectly palatable to some people here. That every single person who set foot anywhere near the Capitol should be arrested – based on geolocation data of your phone, we know who you are – and publiclyexecuted by firing squad on the Capitol steps. Guilty-as-charged for "insurrection." Firearms not required. You just picked the wrong day to walk into "the People's house."
And then, let's likewise arrest anyone who's still living from MLK's "I Have A Dream" gathering, which was held in the very same place. Shoot them all. Surely, this, too, was "insurrection."
But wait: the people who most-recently gathered in the very same place 'protesting' very-violently about "Gaza" must be given a pass.
Anyone who burned police stations and many other public buildings in the summer of 2020 ... causing billions of dollars' worth of actual damages ... sorry, that's "peaceful protest." Pass.
You get the idea. Fast-forward to "banana." Where you are guilty if 'they' say you are, and innocent if 'they' say you are. Therefore, "you'd better forget about the First Amendment and learn how to 'toe the line.'"
There were plenty of "Good Germans," and "Good Jews" in Warsaw, who didn'tobject when these things began to happen in their country. Please do not ignore "history books" and pretend, as they did, that "surely, such an evil thing could never happen here." Just climb into that boxcar and keep quiet.
Millions of people who didn't recognize, at the time, that "the risk is very real" ...
I am sure you are being facetious, but while trespassing, damaging property, and beating on people are not protected under the law, lawful protest and assembly are protected under the US constitution. Also, arresting people without due process and punishment without evidence based conviction "beyond a reasonable doubt" would violate our rule of law and rights under the constitution. We do not do that. The ones who were punished were PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt OR ADMITTED THEIR CRIMES before a court of law and under oath. Most of those convicted on the 6-Jan crimes were convicted by their own words, witness testimony, and direct physical evidence, as well as video certified by the capital police. Many did plea guilty. Virtually ALL said they were there and attacked that way because they were told to by POTUS #45.
As for first amendment rights, I presume the one you mean is freedom of speech and press. Those rights are core to US values and important, but they are not without limit. You can tell any lie you like and have a right to do so, until you lie before a court or law enforcement officer engaged in an investigation. In ALL cases what you say and print can be used as evidence both for and against you if entered into evidence in a court of law.
There is nothing ambiguous or unfair about this, it is the same law for all citizens and companies in the country. (AND all politicians, much to the dismay of some politicians!)
Protesters who were arrested even though they did commit no crimes were released either before judicial review or by the first judge to consider the case because their behavior was protected under the constitution. This includes those who protested on 6-Jan but did NOT attack anyone and did never enter the capital building on that day. They system is flawed, but it works well and gets generally better with time. At times, as now, bad laws are proposed, but soon or late the get blocked because they violate basic rights or principals of law based upon the constitution and those core rights of the citizens.
@wpeckham: Have you ever heard of "forced confessions?"
No matter what anyone else might say, these people innocentlythought that they were exercising precisely the right that the First Amendment supposedly granted to them. And, apparently the Capitol Police guards who opened the doors to them thought so, too. The US Capitol is actually a fortress, with several successive layers of protection guarded by bronze doors that weigh twenty tons. Including the outermost ones, through which these people "freely" entered.
If you want to talk about "actual, armed insurrection," I can quote case after case after case to you: "the summer of 2020." During which police stations were firebombed, entire sections of cities were declared to be "zones," and law-and-order was suddenly a thing of the past. Even as Members of Congress(!) promised to make bail.
All of these things are lifted straight out of the well-known playbooks of Marxists ... and, Nazis.
There is nothing in the definition of "insurrection" that requires arms.
A willful comment in a letter, on social media, or to a friend or relative describing your guilt is not "forced", nor is a willful plea before a court with legal representation and your rights fully protected.
Defending co-criminals with lies and misinformation is also a technique associated with Fascist/Nazis.
Some Marxists are totally nonviolent, but I think I know the ones you mean. I doubt they have anything to do with any of this.The most violent ones, as I recall, attacked with staves and farming implements, a rare scattering of swords, and whatever came to hand: they were not all equipped with firearms, so they do not make your point very well.
Our capital is NOT a fortress, although it may have to become one.
There is nothing in the definition of "insurrection" that requires arms.
A willful comment in a letter, on social media, or to a friend or relative describing your guilt is not "forced", nor is a willful plea before a court with legal representation and your rights fully protected.
Defending co-criminals with lies and misinformation is also a technique associated with Fascist/Nazis.
Okay, @wpeckham, do you mind if I now troll-through all of your "social media posts," or even posts here, to find a few that – as you say – "[willfully ...] describe your guilt?"
It's okay. There's plenty of historical precedent for it. When the boxcar shows up, all you need to do is to climb aboard. According to "us," you already confessed that you were "guilty."
You can proclaim that what you said was neither "lies" nor "disinformation." And maybe what you say is true. But if the winds of State are blowing against you it doesn't really matter.
As the saying goes, plenty of people held precious-to-them opinions ... "until they came for me."
Please never assume that "The United States of America" (tah, dahhh!!) is somehow: "exempt." Our Founding Fathers knew otherwise.
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 03-22-2024 at 10:58 AM.
I truly don't understand how you can say the above, sundialsvcs, while ignoring that in recent public actions, not some journalists article, but by his own actions, Trump has literally taken over the Republican Party as well as dominated the removal of officials approaching hundreds, while stuffing those offices with unqualified "Yes Men" whose sole qualification is Loyalty, threatening to "be a dictator" and end free elections forever, establishing a literal Dynasty. Only under Authoritarian Rule, such as Theocracies always are or soon come to be, does "came for me" become commonplace. The Pogrom has already begun. Whatever benefit you may see in MAGA, this is the Cost. How can you not see this?
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