Why Debian?

rokytnji · 01-31-2018, 08:58 AM

Quote:

So if you don't want systemd, Debian isn't really a viable distribution (unless you enjoy setting up all your own apt pinning and constantly fighting to keep it). To avoid it entirely and keep using Debian, you'd need to rebuild a lot of packages - what some of the derivatives have done.

What he said. Being a longtime AntiX user myself.

Code:

$ inxi -r
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
           deb http://repo.antixlinux.com/stretch stretch main nosystemd
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
           deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
           deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
           deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free

Code:

$ cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/00systemd
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

AntiX . With the help of MX. And Vise Versa. Handle this pretty well. Not perfect. But hey. Effort is spent on this. Somebody at least cares.

I've always been a run what ya brung type of dude.
I just happen to like roll up windows vs electric windows is all.
Ya' all keep driving what you like to drive.
While I keep driving what I like to drive.

Edit> Oh yeah , forgot to mention

Quote:

eudev is gentoo's fork of udev, I'm not sure who (except) gentoo has adopted it, but can't see any mention of it in Debian repositories.

Code:

$ apt-cache policy eudev
eudev:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 3.2.5
  Version table:
     3.2.5 500
        500 http://repo.antixlinux.com/stretch stretch/nosystemd amd64 Packages
$ apt-cache policy udevil
udevil:
  Installed: 0.4.4-1+b1
  Candidate: 0.4.4-1+b1
  Version table:
 *** 0.4.4-1+b1 500
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     0.4.2-1 500
        500 http://repo.antixlinux.com/stretch stretch/main amd64 Packages

enorbet · 01-31-2018, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redfox2807

I don't care about any conversations in an appropriate place. The problem with conversations about systemd 'values and shortcomings' as I see it, is that they appear wherever there is a mention of systemd or any distro using it. No matter that the initial topic has nothing to do with systemd at all.

Btw. I didn't interrupt your conversation. I just stated that it's pretty pointless to expect the topic starter to follow the thread as the disscussion's gone to somewhere else but discussing why we prefer Debian to other distros. So it's definitely not the matter of _my_ skin thickness or how open _my_ mind is.

In the interest of not adding more to the tangent, I'll keep this brief. Please let me explain that I considered this an appropriate place since Debian offers a choice and that choice can be important to any user or would-be user.

I don't hate systemd. Initially I was very concerned about changing hard dependencies like udev combined with massive and rapid deployment but the Gentoo community solved that with eudev, which incidentally is employed by Slackware to avoid systemd default reliance altogether. FWIW there are a few developers who have created a systemd version of Slackware. So it is my frame of reference that absent such hard dependencies systemd is neither to be hated nor feared but simply evaluated for an honest cost/benefit analysis.

IMHO if Debian were to drop SysVINit or any other possible optional choice to systemd, then it would be inappropriate here. I do realize there are some irrational haters out there that could derail any thread, but that is not me nor my intention in bringing it up. I'd hoped the insane heat had died out in favor of Reason. Maybe I miscalculated. If so, my apologies to the group and to the OP. I do hope that if we are not there yet, that we soon will be, although I must add that I think it was handled in a gentlemanly fashion here, so far, and that has to be a good sign.

redfox2807 · 01-31-2018, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet

In the interest of not adding more to the tangent, I'll keep this brief. Please let me explain that I considered this an appropriate place since Debian offers a choice and that choice can be important to any user or would-be user.

I don't hate systemd. Initially I was very concerned about changing hard dependencies like udev combined with massive and rapid deployment but the Gentoo community solved that with eudev, which incidentally is employed by Slackware to avoid systemd default reliance altogether. FWIW there are a few developers who have created a systemd version of Slackware. So it is my frame of reference that absent such hard dependencies systemd is neither to be hated nor feared but simply evaluated for an honest cost/benefit analysis.

IMHO if Debian were to drop SysVINit or any other possible optional choice to systemd, then it would be inappropriate here. I do realize there are some irrational haters out there that could derail any thread, but that is not me nor my intention in bringing it up. I'd hoped the insane heat had died out in favor of Reason. Maybe I miscalculated. If so, my apologies to the group and to the OP. I do hope that if we are not there yet, that we soon will be, although I must add that I think it was handled in a gentlemanly fashion here, so far, and that has to be a good sign.

I get your point and I'd also like to apologize if I offended you with what I implied to be just a reference to Orwell. I didn't intend to target anyone personally and just wanted to express that I consider the whole systemd buzz as a factitious problem. Especially taking into account that in its SysVInit times Debian never really offered a choice of the init system, and no one really cared that they were not able to use open.rc or BSD-stile init on Debian. After all it's great to see we don't have on these forums the ones who throw personal insults to Mr. Poettering just on hearing about a new systemd release what we may often witness on Phoronix.

minsoehan · 02-12-2018, 07:58 AM

I came from Arch for Debian in reasons of stability, relaiability, productivity and one thing that .deb package files are available out there. I can use AUR in Arch. But I feel more comfortable with being availability of .deb files provided by software manufacturers.

bcwagne · 03-15-2018, 03:03 AM

Started with Red Hat 5.2 back in 1999 and stuck with it until it got to be too business-y around version 10. After that I drifted for a while to suse, mandrake, openlinux, knoppix. Finally tried Debian about 2003 and never looked back. It just feels like home.