Ok, now it's completely clear.

Seriously, If you just didn't like ubuntu, you would just go away... but no...

crashmeister, you're intelligent and an unbiased observer. I very much enjoyed reading your post to me. As a matter of fact, I read it slowly to digest everything you said.

You're right about the business side of windows and ubuntu. Unfortunately, that's how the cookie crumbles. If something is free, it won't work as well as something that's isn't. Just the way it is.

You sound like you majored in business administration in college, by the way.

Anyway, thanks for a great reply! I liked it!

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PLEASE!! don't argue!
Guys, don't feed the trolls!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Actually, I was a moderator here for 7 years but I got tired of trolls like you, so I quit being a moderator!

I'm fully aware of the rules.

Clearly you don't read up on other members posts and their stances on other issues, but that's not the point I tried to make. My post was clearly to tell other members they should stop feeding trolls.



This wasn't even directed towards you but another member that did in fact start threads titled like this which was an inside type joke between several of the veteran members who were aware of this other troll! Once again, you should go read other threads before making asinine comments you know nothing about to the veteran members instead of members like you that don't go outside of their own threads they start to troll with.

This thread certainly didn't lack of entertainment value.

What I find so funny (Ironic?) about these "hate" threads is, while the authors present a clear position of ignorance, they aren't willing to acknowledge it. They present a laundry list or problems and complain like finger-pointing politicians but offer no prof they gave any real effort to solve them. It's as if they expect everything to come naturally. They don't have to read anything; they just have to hold the literature to their foreheads ala Johnny Carson and expect to know it all. It's utterly ridiculous.

Computers are not intuitive. Such is the same of operating systems. An OS is nothing more than an interface. It's there to make things easier, but it's not going to do the work for the user; and by that, he has to learn the intricacies of how it works.

Also, there seems to be this inherently skewed retrospective view users have of their Windows knowledge. It's like, "All I know now, I knew then." This is obviously utter silliness. If these same people were to travel back in time to meet their former selves the first time they ever sat down to a Windows computer and said, "I need Windows (whatever version) fully installed with all current Service Packs up to date. Also be sure to install all the necessary device drivers. When that's done, install all the necessary software I need for a fully usable home office and media computer." How on Earth would that younger version react? He'd be completely clueless.

It's similar to learning to a second language. From the out-side looking in, people tend to find it extremely difficult and "harder" than their natural language. But this assumes the fact these people learned that language over night. They didn't. They learned it through constant use since infancy--completely surrounded by it. They had to continuously expand their vocabulary through route and use. Eventually, they got to a point to where they could express themselves clearly and effortlessly as if they "knew it all along." Except they didn't. Then, when they decide to take on a second language, they have to start the process all over again: the same mind numbing route, and practice, and exposing themselves to the proper environment. It's a long, arduous process. It may seem harder the second time, but it's still the same dance, there's just different music playing.

Linux is the same way. UNIX is very different from DOS. The bolts of one, don't fit the holes of the other. Yet, people assume that they should as if they will as a God. Except things don't work that way. It's necessary to discover which of the bolts go in which holes, and those who are willing to learn the difference should leave the drill on the bench, go home, and keep their mouth shut.

I read basically this whole thread and I'm waiting for the part where davidx stops attacking forum members and instead asks how he can get help getting his system running GNU/Linux properly. I, for instance, was able to make the transition from Kubuntu 8.04 to 8.10 just fine, but I have been concerned about performance and have been thinking of jumping ship back to Debian. Of course, I figured instead I'd help with bug reporting of KDE4 and such.

Just to comment: Since upgrading to 8.10, full-screen YouTube videos play great, OpenOffice's scrolling issue seems to be resolved, and songbird doesn't appear to be in the repo's. ("sudo apt-get install songbird" told me songbird couldn't be found. I really wanted to try that out... did I spell it wrong or something?)

So where do we start...? Oh, of course: System specs (processor, video card, etc)? And what specific error messages were you getting?

DavidX has been given some time off to cool down, let this thread die while one of the mods comes by to tidy it away.

Lol - tought you are a mod? Split personality?

If you read his post, you would realise he was referring to the attitude towards women of a former member of these forums.

Oooops! Missed reading this last page. Five years cooling off 'til he grows up??

trickykid, sorry to hear you're not a Mod anymore...I did noticed it show you as Guru and I thought you used to be a Mod. I hope the OP finds a good distro he will like, after all, there are tons of distros to try.

Mr. Masculinity was banned?

We all have our own forums - so I have limited powers here (can't close threads/edit threads and so on) but can in General, Linux-General, Linux User Groups and Distros.

There used to be a mod list against every forum so you could see who moderated which, but it seems to have gone.

Just assume that we're every where and in a constant bad mood and you should be fine


[edit] There is a list, but you have to go into the forum itself - scroll to the very bottom and it's the far left of the "Display Options" box.

I am really sorry you are taking this as a personal thing. Time to move into any other thing.

Who? bashyow? I thought he just stormed off in a huff on his accord. Went seeking other "more enlightened" forums.
Don't know whether davidx has been banned.

Too bad this thread ends up in throwing mud from one to another. The subject gets lost, and as a matter of fact the majority threads seem to focus on personal behaviour. I am sorry to see that,

Davidx certainly has a point.

Ubuntu IS marketed as being a better Windows. There are a few pitfalls in that approach. For example drivers which are unavailable in Linux will be generally unavailable in Ubuntu as well. Tell this to someone who just installed a better Windows and tries to connect his Canon 4200 scanner. Or try to get wireless working on his Acer Aspire Futuristic Blah 4311 laptop.

The biggest mistake that Ubuntu makes though is that it tries to mimick Windows as good as possible, in many ways diverting from the Linux paradigm. For example, when you install Ubuntu, it asks for your name. This turns out that YOU are the administrator and using sudo you have to enter YOUR password. In all the times I installed Ubuntu I made this silly mistake. I am used to enter MY name as myself, and have an administrator account for administrative purposes.

Another part of this mimicking is that really everything which shows white text on a black screen is hidden as good as possible. Ubuntu shows a splash screen with a moving bar just like Windows. Yes, I had a Ubuntu machine refused to start, and there was no way I could get into logs or whatever or see what was happening. The only solution was to reinstall, just like Windows.

When I installed Kubuntu 8.04 it came with the not even halfway finished KDE 4.0. Beautiful graphics, but otherwise hopelessly immature down to the point of being unusable. Why did it remind me of Windows ME?

Currently it seems that Ubuntu comes with Compiz standard installed. A lot of bloatware, which doesn't make your machine exactly faster or more useful, just like Windows.

The last installation of Ubuntu refused to install or upgrade any package. It would be stuck forever in the Synaptic window. (I forgot the real name of the program, it had of course some fancy title like "upgrade and install software", just like Windows). I think sometimes I saw a popup which tried to flash an error message which disappeared before I could read it. When I restarted Synaptic it would complain that another program was using the foo database or so. This only would disappear when I restarted Ubuntu. For small problems, restart the machine, for large problems, reinstall, just like Windows.

So it seems that Ubuntu has inherited many of the bad things of Windows, but where is the improvement? When I made some earlier complaints in this forum about the silly things Ubuntu did and their point of view, I was recommended not to try and use Ubuntu as a real Linux because that would break it. That proved to be very true and a good advice, but why is Ubuntu trying to break the usual Linux paradigm and do the developers think it is an improvement?

Flash is a major PITA, especially in Opera. Why shouldn't I be using it in Opera? Because it is not supported? Not WHAT?. It was a better Windows, remember?

OpenOffice was painstakingly slow, start up times have been reduced by over 50% in version 2.4. But I remember discussions where OO was claimed to be much better than MSOffice. Hey but there was ample room for improvement, isn't it? OO is not 100% compatible with MsOffice. Try to open a complicated Word document and you can spend half a day on serious reformatting. This is not so much OO's fault as MsOffice file format is proprietary, but one should not brag about 100% MSOffice compatibility. As a matter of fact, I think OOwriter is better implemented than MsOffice if it comes to using styles, autonumbering, frames and pictures, but that is if you don't have to interface with Word users. And everyone who tries to open a Excel spreadsheet in his better than MsOffice OOCalc is to be unpleasantly surprised. OOCalc is a usable package (not as good as Excel though, that is), but advertising it as better prepares for disappointment.

I think the whole Ubuntu hype (yes, IMHO it is overhyped, great expression) is unjustified. It is not a better Windows, instead it is a worse Linux. Expectations are raised but not realized. Fortunately Ubuntu made me go back to Debian, and not to XP. (To be honest, I never installed XP on my own machines, I only [tried to] support other users). XP might be better than Ubuntu, but it is much worse than real Linux. It makes me feel sitting behind the computer blindfolded wearing boxing gloves. Linux is not Windows, and users should realize that. But Ubuntu developers also.

jlinkels