I don't know if I should start a new thread, but to be honest I am still trying to research how to enable HDMI audio to my TV. I am wondering how pipewire handles this, will pipewire be considered as default in the next Slackware release, and my other question is - is it possible to have two working audio sources at the same time? I mean if I can mirror my screen to my TV, how does audio work? If I get audio working to my TV, will this mean I will no longer have audio on my pc? :scratch:

Also I feel this will require me to really sit down and tinker, as I doubt I can't get away with just a quick and dirty setup.

Well for pulseaudio applications, it's basically the same. You still view and configure it via pavucontrol just like before. For anyone on -current this might be something to fiddle with using audacious since it can do both. You can do an apples-to-apples comparison.

In my experience HDMI output is one of the things pulse made easy and pipewire just inherits that same process.

Yea, and then there is the KDE media settings that show all these HDMI outs , which is kinda confusing - I ran these commands though in a terminal:

Still confusing, why are there so many under the NVIDIA device? I already feel in over my head , I didn't really find anything of use from Arch - since I kept hearing Arch is now the go-to defacto standard for documentation on all things Linux. I guess before even getting maybe both audio sources to work, I should first focus on just seeing if I can get audio out from my GPU's HDMI port, then maybe down the line make sure to have both audio on my pc and tv (again if that is somehow possible)... But like I said right now I am just trying to research this, and maybe when I can devote more time I will end up creating a dedicated thread. Right now it is just musings and wonderings...

You are feeling in over your head because you are trying to use alsa. What you are seeing is exactly what pulse is intended to simplify. So if you use pulse, you have to stop using alsa tools. Let pulse (or pipewire) take over as a level of abstraction in front of alsa.

One of the most common complaints about pulse is that it takes over your alsa device. Which is true.. and if pulse actually gave us the level of control and quality we wanted then we wouldn't be constantly trying to drop back to alsa-tools for certain things.

As proof-of-concept, if you are on a version of slackware that has pulseaudio then try launching pavucontrol and see if you have an HDMI device under the Configuration tab. If you launch a media player and select that device as the output then HDMI audio will probably work out of the box.

For right now, the process is exactly the same in pipewire. It a drop-in replacement so most end-users won't notice a change in selecting input/output devices. Just don't use alsa-tools ;)

I honestly feel like I am not even truly using pipewire only, even though I followed the instructions included in the documentation for Slackware15.0; which is again why I am hoping maybe pipewire might be the default on next release, who knows. I have launched pavucontrol and in the output section I just have Line out available. If I go to the configuration tab it shows GK208 HDMI/DP controller which the profile is off , and under that built-in audio and the profile is on, and under the GK208 shows quite a few bit of options:



KDE's audio shows similar , I guess it is a matter of process of elimination - I just need 2.0 channel audio, I don't have the equipment anyways for 5.1 or 7.1 - so if it is plug and play then I can just chose one of the 4 options at the top and see if it works. I just now need to find a spare HDMI cable somewhere :P

Yeah that's basically what you have to do manually via an asoundrc but that would require restarting apps and can take a while. With this you can just set a music player going and pick different outputs until you hear something :D

Mine has an additional option at the top that isn't numbered. it's been a while since I tried it but that should be the one that autodetects which output is the one your card uses. You have that for HDMI 5.1 and 7.1 in the middle of the list. You might need to scroll up for the first line.

IIRC this isn't a pulse or alsa problem, but rather a byproduct of how the card exposes audio interfaces. AMD cards do the exact same thing.

Thanks @LuckyCyborg! It looks like that would naturally go into the /usr/bin/startfvwm2 script (and the other similar scripts).

Just saw this over at phoronix... https://www.phoronix.com/news/PipeWire-0.3.71-Released

PipeWire 0.3.71 brings "many" performance improvements and various efficiency enhancements, continued work on BAP devices, and a new zero-latency JACK D-Bus bridge was added.

Sweet! :)

nevermind.

and still you cant uninstall pulseaudio after switching to pipewire, nonsens.

Too much of the Linux ecosystem expects it to be there. :/

I finally was able to get a USB dongle today. Bluetooth 5.0, tp-link, cost me ₱400 ($7).

Luxury! You spoiled your belly! ;)

What? There aren't China Shops on Philippines? :D

BTW, let me explain what I understand by "China Shop" : on every urban settlement from my country is at least one shop named "China Shop" and managed by a Chinese guy (or lady) and selling various Chinese goods. All of them being cheap.

These China Shops have stands with shoes, pants, shirts, various other goods ending with electronics. Like the radios, smartphones, headphones, various other electronics related things, ending with WiFi or Bluetooth dongles, but I have seen China Shops selling mini-PCs or even ARM boards. :D

I familiar with those types of shops. The public market sell just about everything. :)

No. The reason why you cannot uninstall pulseaudio is because you need to recompile your base slackware packages that link it. People have done this, and everything still works. Even pipewire will compile without pulseaudio. Once that is done, then you can removepkg pulseaudio. Nothing truly requires pulseaudio to have functioning audio in the linux ecosystem.

Unfortunately, not all the applications was ported to PipeWire yet. ;)

Someday will happen, but isn't that day yet. Notable, there is no PipeWire equivalent for the audio controls on Plasma5, like it's for PulseAudio. And yes, I do not want to use TWM instead just because "PulseAudio sucks!" ...

And NOPE, I do not believe that we should go using ALSA backend everywhere and accept limitations with serenity, just because some people loves to play hattin' PulseAudio. Anyway, also Slackware put ideas like this on the recycle bin. Long time ago.

Anyway, I remember that Mr. Hameleers said that PulseAudio is here to stay. So, I guess that Slackware will be the last Linux distribution which will ditch PulseAudio in favor of PipeWire.

Yes
But:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post6429981

We are not in a hurry, anyway

I have to unfortunately agree that it isn't quite time to dump Pulse in favor of Pipewire just yet. but I will be grateful when it does because Pulse does suck, at least for serious audio work. Apparently it's great for casual listeners who depend on onboard audio but that's about all.

Please correct me if I am mistaken but is there ant software that does ALSA's job? Doesn't ALL audio still depend on ALSA even if it is sort of hidden? Maybe I'm wrong to take you literally at your word but considering it appears to be a pattern over time and many posts, but I take issue with your characterization of pulseadio haters as merely playing at hating. I spent countless hours learning ALSA configuration for at least 3 different audio systems to get it to do exactly what I want with the least penalties and then along came Pulseaudio and ruined almost everything for me. It took months to determine how to get back even close to the performance I had enjoyed for years. This is only so far about my investment in time.

For hardware, my current soundcard sells in the US in 2023 for $419.00. Not counting peripherals like multichannel mixers, effects, microphones, cables or DAW, etc. the support hardware (speakers and amplifiers alone) cost roughly twice that, so well over $1200.00 USD hardware investment on top of the additional countless hours learning DAW work in Linux. Pulseaudio made that immeasurably harder and cost me a great deal of time and productivity.

I am indeed a Pulseaudio Hater but I am most certainly not playing around. Just because it apparently made your work flow easier does not mean it did that for everyone. For some of us Pulseaudio has been a Royal PITA. I don't begrudge anyone that loves what Pulse did for them but it is simply wrong to try to pass off all pulse haters as wallowing in trivial nonsense. There is a reason ALSA has stuck around since 1998 and was supported in the Linux kernel by 2002 while Pulse in less than 5 years is seeking replacement by the very same organization that wrote it. That's why Pipewire has been dubbed by many as "Pulseaudio 2.0"and still depends on ALSA. There is also a reason that ProTools is only available for Mac and Windows and audio support is the main one.

Yes. We're still using ALSA in the back end. I don't think OSS ever made any serious traction.

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to my next computer, which will likely not have a PCI slot for my m-audio delta 1010LT. Multi-channel audio is *expensive* because it's niche. You can get a good focusrite or behringer USB device for $200-300, though. Hopefully those prices don't skyrocket.

I was not suggesting to port all applications to Pipewire. I only mentioned that Pipewire's rollout may bring choice again in audio configuration if done correctly. Though pipewire is not needed either. Only it shows promise.

I have not suggested that people abandon Plasma 5 for TWM over audio controls. Don't delve into absurdities here.

I was explaining that even today, Pulseaudio is not absolutely required in a Linux distro for audio. It never really was. And you can still kick it out in Slackware. Or you can KEEP it in slackware and get a pulseaudio mixer. I don't care. Use any DE/WM you want. If pipewire doesn't work for you, don't use it!

Strange. I have found that Pulseaudio depends on ALSA, and so whatever Pulseaudio does, ALSA really does it. That includes all the fancy features. And with Pulseaudio kicked out of the way, the mixer functions as it should. There are no limitations... and you can get control of your mixer. This is the opposite of limitations. Having this choice is great. But whatever. Just stick to nonsense and make up stories of a hating fest, and you'll get nowhere.

Mr. Hameleers is not the BDFL of Slackware. And an argument what goes in or out of slackware is moot. You have the choice of what to use right now with Slackware 15.0. And the strategy to ditch Pulseaudio in Slackware officially will not be my concern. I'm only suggesting that you do have choices, and whatever gets adopted officially will get evaluated at the time for impact.

/usr/sbin/pipewire-enable.sh > enter > and breath, that's better no more pulseaudio.
Huge thanks for the pipewire-enable.sh script :-)))))))

In fact, it's no more PulseAudio server running, because it was replaced by a PipeWire daemon.

Otherwise, the PulseAudio client libraries continue to be used as usual. ;)

The thanks should go to our BDFL for it.

I have now come full circle, after getting weird behaviour in pipewire namely when streaming films audio/video was not in sync.
After looking into config and changing a few things found on LinuxQuestions, and other source's audio/video sync was better but still out.
I opted for the sledge hammer approach uninstalled pipewire and wireplumber and made a /etc/asound.conf for my soundcard. Hey presto synced audio/video in chrome, just a few apps needed help as they are addicted to pulseaudio and wont even build without it. I found a tiny app called apulse "https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse" also on sbo, that enables them to work and stop withdrawal symptoms.
I was most impressed that spotify had not gone down the pulseaudio only route as it sounds outstanding on premium set to audio quality very high playing direct through alsa default device.

Sound playback has lost all crackles and glitches and overall system is more responsive, I understand why things are being setup with pulseaudio to make life easier for a lot of user's.
But as I found linux version of google-chrome was made with pulseaudio as the only option and then after numerous issue's and complaints they added back option to use alsa or oss via startup option. /usr/bin/google-chrome-stable --alsa-output-device='name device/plug you wish to use' available in Version 114.0.5735.198. This say's a lot to me when google back track on a decision :-))))

I have had to recompile a few stock packages so they detect that pulseaudio/pipewire are not installed as few apps failed in builds due to lib files linking to pulseaudio lib's that aren't present Sox to name one.

I think when looking at other distro's and see they have defaulted to pulseaudio/pipewire there going to loose a lot of user's. As you aren't able to do as I have in Slackware and remove them. Then setup alsa as all of there app's using sound are compiled against it and there is no option to change that.

OK, slackware current, pipewire 0.7.38, i've tried both Pat's build enabled for jack, and using Alien Bob's pipewire-jack package. Every time I try to boot the server with supercollider I get:

I have pipewire's jack implemented using this step: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post6426997

Any ideas what might be going on? I didn't have this problem with 0.3.77. Is it the lua changes?

here's what I found out:

pipewire-0.3.78 with Alien Bob's pipewire-jack 0.3.78 doesn't work with supercolider 3.12 or 3.13.
Pat's build of pipewire with jack enabled doesn't work with supercollider 3.12 or 3.13.

Supercollider 3.12 with pipewire 0.3.77 works.
Supercollider 3.13 with pipewire 0.3.77 works.

Who should get the bug report? Supercollider or pipewire? :)

https://github.com/supercollider/sup...er/issues/6076 OK, supercollider people aren't sure. Did something change in pipewire between 0.3.77 and 0.3.78? (Like how pw-jack is supposed to be configured, etc?)

Removed, since the post I was responding to was removed. Should I bug report this with the pipewire people? I don't think it's a supercollider bug. Rather, the supercollider people aren't sure what's going on. Or wait until 0.3.79 to see if it's still an issue?

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipew.../-/issues/3465 Not just me. If any of y'all are having problems with pipewire and jack, please add your data. :)

pipewire 0.3.80 FTB on slackware 15.0 using slackbuild from -current. Anyone else see the same error?

I haven't investigated further yet.

edit:
Need to apply the attached patch and it will build.

PipeWire 1.0 Planned For Release Later This Year

https://www.phoronix.com/news/PipeWire-1.0-Release-Plan

I'm going to be honest, I had pipewire working on an Arch based distribution and finely setup. It was not bad, that distribution also used systemd. On Slackware stable and current, I know they include support for it but if you are running any kind of production environment for music I would not be toying with this stuff. I had it working pretty decent on that Arch based distribution but I did not feel confident in it. I would stick with pulseaudio/jack for a while. There will be a point where they have stuff ironed out with pipewire/slackware in terms of things being fairly seamless, however, that's a ways off.

Alien Bob has one of the best howto's out there for setting up your system base configuration for a DAW and is great for studio production, if you have your system set up with the older software tech I would not toy or fool with what you have, it's already excellent and not broke.

I have been using the older proven DAW setup for years and it's great. If you are running a music production environment the more boring the better, I actually use Mixbus32c so hopefully that gives some of you an indication of how serious I take this stuff. That said if you absolutely must 'pipewire' you probably want to be on a rolling release arch based distribution with fat fat fat software repos and systemd. It's not going to work the same on Slackware.

I have both Slackware stable and Slackware current setup for DAW work, neither use pipewire. A valid point to raise about pipewire is that it is just now reaching version 1, hold off on pipewire for a while that's my recommendation for DAWs only. I know I am new here but have been using all of this stuff four a couple decades, I'm not an idiot.

ping slackdruid - While I'm retired so not as serious into DAW as I once was, I have recorded, edited and posted more than a dozen sessions in the last 2 months. I started using Slackware around 1999 and compiled Ardour when it was pre-alpha. I completely agree with you that pipewire on Slackware, as much as I hate having to say it, is not quite there yet, even on Current, but it is very workable and preferable to pulseaudio on some other distros. I am quite excited about the 1.0 release and hope ALL Slackware versions move to it when it is released.

Precisely on that point, slackduid, I want to ask you if I understand one other point on your #531 post. Why do you mention systemd? Do you think the init system has anything to do with some of those distro's success with pipewire? ... or is it just the newer version of pipewire that's responsible? IOW is this causation or unrelated correlation in your view?

I'm not 100% certain but systemd seems to be able to be more tightly integrated with pipewire allowing for an easier setup. I'm not a fan of systemd though, it's not just an init system it's a modern suite of things that are tightly coupled to the operating system. I don't like its process supervision. For those that like it, I'm not turning my nose up at their choice of using it, it's just not for me.

Pipewire is not default in Slackware, but is required by Wayland/Plasma5 and isn't only about audio, but also about video.

And finally, this thread is for those who want to experiment with Pipewire.

I don't understand why you came here if you don't like Pipewire. Just to crash the party?

I actually do like pipewire, I think it's an awesome project. I merely mentioned that you don't want to be toying with it on a DAW setup, I am just making the point that the last thing you want while you are working on a music project is to be messing with the stuff.

Nothing I said is keeping anyone from enjoying it, I just wanted to add a caveat for a particular use scenario. It's getting there and I am sure it's going to be great in the future for DAW's. I am actually looking forward to it, it's just that right now if your DAW is already working? You might want to hold off. At least set it up on a different install or system.

If you are not running a DAW on Slackware have at it and tons of fun in the process. I have no control over what you decide to do with your system, don't let my opinion get in your way. The only reason I bothered to interject in this thread was due to the mention of someone having issues with supercollider, you really can't blame me for trying to save someone from a headache on their DAW setup.

I was not trying to lead anyone astray from their hearts desires with pipewire, use it!

I don't understand why you assume slackdruid is even attempting to "crash the party". How is it a bad thing to note limitations, especially at this pre 1.0 stage? It seems to me noting such limitations identifies areas in which experimentation and improvements are needed. It also is a wise warning that presently pipewire is still a bit problematic on Slackware for serious DAW work. Serious users should be warned they have a slight uphill battle in such efforts at least pre 1.0 and certainly with pipewire-0.3.44, default on Slackware 15.0, and even with pipewire-0.3.80 now default on Current.

It is my sincere and somewhat urgent wish that Patrick moves to 1.0 even on v15.0 Slackware as soon as it is possible. I recognize that Pulseaudio was a major boon to basic audio users but for me, Pulsaudio, caused me a huge amount of grief with semi-professional audio work with high end audio. Pipewire has the ability to maintain and even improve BOTH basic and professional audio work and from my POV it's about damned time!

I think I understand why it has taken so long for Linux to have a solid audio system considering that Linus, himself, prefers silence while he works. Audio is, at best, a nagging afterthought for devs like Linus. Coming to Linux from OS/2 even as much as IBM disliked even the idea of multimedia having the possibility of distracting workplace efforts, even they recognized that multimedia is important to advertising so OS/2 did a passably decent job for the era. Linux has never done a solid job with audio. The ability is certainly there but neither OSS nor ALSA was basic for the average user, and it is still a bit dense and clunky for pros which is why any need for anything remotely like pulse was perceived.

Thankfully, Pipewire has a nearly realized format in which to check that box off once and for all. I think slackdruid's posts have been valid and useful and by no means anti-pipewire. I imagine since Alien Bob seems to be a music lover Current will not hesitate to get Pipewire 1.0 working in his DAW as well as default Current systems. I hope Patrick does this for 15.0, too.

What does systemd do more than start pipewire daemons (pipewire, pipewire-pulse, pipewire-media-session or wireplumber) compared to the "Raforg daemon" we use?

I think you answered your own question. But to cut like a razor blade when pipewire was rolled out running by default on distributions it ran out of the box said daemons. I know, I watched it happen and I was like "What the hell." and to be honest it was
not welcome but! I worked around it and copied over a configuration and edited it and it was fine until I found out below.

The reason I don't use pipewire is cause of xruns and lots of them at very low CPU usage and conservative settings not asking too much of the audio interface. I have found other instances of people with the same issues testing it out with DAW work.
Eventually I think the pipewire project will elucidate why it's happening and solve it but for now and I could be quite behind on the subject, so far as I know it has not been fixed.

For everything else pipewire is awesome, it truly is. Just....until you get to the music production part.

So the most salient point about pipewire concerning DAW work is xruns and boat loads of them. Hence me originally stating I did not feel confident in it, at least for now. For everybody else? Rock some pipewire.

I am absolutely all for pipewire as a project, it may eventually put GNU Linux on the map with sound quality right up there with Mac OS by default and believe me that's greatly needed.

That's not been my experience, slackdruid, and on very old hardware. I recorded a live session almost non-stop for 2 hours with a Scarlett Focusrite into an ancient T61P Core 2 Duo Thinkpad at 48,000 with 256 buffer and had not one xrun. Granted it was a single source microphone recording. I had experienced some difficulties running the Slackware DAW so I tried a few distros with newest Pipewire and also the OpenSuse Tumbleweed packages pipewire-jack, pipewire-alsa, and pipewire-pulse. I'd much rather have been able to use Slackware but I wanted to be able to edit and "punch in" and did not want to deal with Pulse latency.

This is why I think Pipewire is very close to being able to deliver the much needed coup de gras to Pulse and very soon and that is a day I will celebrate. I despise Pulse.

Slackdruid, were you using jack2 or pipewire's jack? I had no end of problems with jack (really jack2) and pipewire, but when I switched over to pipewire-jack, the problems disappeared. Not one xrun, though, but I wasn't doing anything complicated with supercollider.

I actually ended up using pipewire jack which completely removed and replaced jack. I think this was about 3-4 months ago.

Were you using many plugins and working with multiple tracks while recording? I am with you on pulseaudio, unfortunately we will be seeing that name for quite some time even after the packages have been completely removed. The whole DAW thing is just a hobby of mine 'although a serious one having spent some money on stuff' and I am very slow with projects with having to work but when I want to start laboring on something curve balls can be a turnoff when one wants to just record and have fun making something.

Nevermind about replying, I'm good to go and am unsubscribing from thread. Happy computing.


https://alien.slackbook.org/blog/con...-use-as-a-daw/


I provided alien bobs guide, no one is going to remember how to configure a DAW unless you kept notes, what he has there is pretty much the same as old Ardour guides
for this stuff. I am sure in the future guides will be updated with the addition of pipewire information and proper configuration logic. In all honesty he does have
the best guide out there cause just about all the information you need is condensed on one page and not spread throughout the internet in bits and fragments.










.................

FWIW even after installing pipewire-jack (iirc called pipewire-native-jack on Slack) Qjackctl still works, as do many other apps like Cadence. Similarly, at least on some other distros, pipewire-alsa and pipewire-pulse, although not removing alsa or pulse, does use or supplant them satisfying any apps that are not jack aware or "require" pulse. With the latest Pipewire it became trivial to route any source to any destination. What a breath of fresh air! This is why I am excitedly awaiting Pipewire 1.0 and hoping it can be integrated into Slackware 15.0 asap.

It appears to solve the divide caused by pulse by making it easy and functional for every type of user, from the low priority onboard chip folks to the multi thousand dollar pro audio systems afficionados.

I know, I know, I can't wait for it to replace lots of junk as well and it does completely function with all the jack stuff but without jack itself, it is a complete replacement after all. I actually was trying to detach from this thread but did not want to leave without leaving something positive and constructive.

Read all about it at, https://www.phoronix.com/news/PipeWire-1.0-RC

PipeWire 0.3.81 (1.0-RC) built and running on 15.0 here.

After this weeks slackbuilds update, you can install python3-meson-opt to build pipewire on 15.0.

Use the previous patch I posted to fix compiling with the vulkan feature enabled or one can change to "-Dvulkan=disabled" in the slackbuild.

Just wanted to give an update on my end. After some careful consideration and some realizations I went on ahead and took the pipewire plunge on Slackware with both stable and current. I figured I will at least try it on current first by running the enable script from /usr/sbin thinking well obviously I can disable it if it just does not work out for what I desire. At first I thought hmmm, so what works and doesn't work? So I did some diving and to my pleasant surprise without jack started as I suspected it is a most excellent replacement for pulseaudio just like when I was running it on another distribution before I migrated back to Slackware after being many years off of it.

Having now Mixbus32c 9.2 I desired to go on ahead and fire up jack and it's just like I remembered back in the day with only alsa and jack. Jack runs perfectly fine while I am doing my audio work with zero xruns. I am not able to run steam games with jack running but that is completely fine cause that is how I exactly remember the stuff being with certain things when I began my journey with DAW work from 2005 onwards, jack hijacked my audio reserving it for DAW work only. Thank goodness, this is how I remembered it with plain alsa.

So for me this is actually the way I prefer it, bye bye pulseaudio you most certainly will not be missed. All I have to do is stop the jack server through qjackctl and I'm back to regular non DAW business. Pretty wonderful, both on Slackware stable and current. No extra configuring pipewire and my system wide DAW configuration post installation still holds.

Kind regards.

Don't forget that stock pipewire isn't compiled with jack enabled. So either grab Alien Bob's pipewire-jack package, or rebuild pipewire, yourself. (It's surprisingly easy once you change the two flags.) There's an entry in /etc needed (scroll back in this thread a bit) to get it to use pipewire's jack. I haven't tried supercollider and Steam at the same time, though I've had a youtube video and a supercollider server booted at the same time with no hijacking of audio devices. (I still have jack installed, same with pulseaudio. They aren't running, but other things have been compiled against them.)

That's what I did, I am using Alien Bobs pipewire-jack. How my setup is right now is good enough for me. The main thing I wanted to eliminate with pipewire was the intermittent pops and clicks when starting/pausing xmms, audacious, xine, youtube videos etc. It used to not be an issue without it but this past year I started noticing it and it got pretty irritating. I can't remember if it was Slackware stable or current but one of them would not even allow me to start jack without pipewire-jack package, the other did. I did not uninstall anything, I figured better to leave that stuff be. The main thing was I flat out did not want pulse running at all.