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In the google translate rendering of the review of Slackware 15.0 that kikinovak posted up the thread, the word 'artisanal' is used to describe Slackware and its development process.
Strikes me as a useful re-framing outside of the IT world: sourdough bread and other slow food, makers, craftspeople &c. Quite a lot of younger people are drawn to those businesses. Nice coverage of slackbuilds.org process as well.
Distribution: Mainly Devuan, antiX, & Void, with Tiny Core, Fatdog, & BSD thrown in.
Posts: 5,521
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Originally Posted by adcdam
But you miss Slackware, because if you dont you wouldnt be trolling about Debian/Devuan in a Slackware forum.
its like if i use Slackware and i go to a Devian forum and i say Debian sucks because its has automatic dependency resolution and i dont like that, i wouldn t do that because i know that is not the right place to say that, so why if you like Debian (which i dont have any problem) are you posting in a Slackware forum about a system you dont use anymore?
1) I'm not trolling, I'm a Linux user, & am interested in all Linux, whichever distro, but have my own personal preferences, (as do you).
2) I used to use other distros along side, but soon found it/them not to my taste, so reverted, & have continued with my choice.
3) I'm not on a Slackware Forum - I'm on Linux Questions - go make your own forum, & you won't hear any of my opinions again, good luck.
BTW If you'd like to see or recommend a decent review and tutorial by an otherwise non Slackware user, who is actually both adept and fair see this (IIRC he's an Arch guy)
Yeah, that was pretty good. He did some things differently to the way I would, but that's one of the great things about Slackware... you can do things your own way and it'll co-operate with you.
Distribution: Slackware 15.0 x64, Slackware Live 15.0 x64
Posts: 618
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Originally Posted by enorbet
Absolutely agreed! Expanding on that and specific to Slackware vs/ OpenSuse kernel upgrade and boot process ....
I actually like OpenSuse quite a lot, at least once I understood it doesn't like me trying to edit configs but prefers I use one of the dozens of Yast sub sets, but I really don't care for all that semi blind hand holding. Perhaps the main reason is that such automated (if partially guided within limitations) over time makes users weak. It reminds me of early power steering where the drive has no feel for the road.
I mean how many times does anyone suppose a user will delete the old kernel while forgetting to run LILO (an increasingly moot point specifically but the lesson still stands) BEFORE testing the new kernel and it's appropriate bootloader function? Seriously.
In modern UEFI times elilo has no serious problem not requiring an executable to enable a new kernel boot option, nor does rEFInd. Grub2 does require an executable to incorporate a new kernel unless one enables OSprober (and I see Suse inhibits it's effect now for better and for worse) so it still fits but why do I need to remain ignorant of the proper way of adding/upgrading kernels and the boot process?
What that reviewer and so many "new" users fail to grasp, is that it is exactly that hand-holding that makes the quality of posts demonstrating the admin ability or lack thereof directly proportional to such hand holding. If this reviewer continues on this path and some distros provide what he thinks is "modern", useful and actually "proper", I predict that in just a few years most Linux support will have become, "Reboot or Reinstall" just like the Windows they miss so terribly.
Those folks can continue to never learn to drive or fix their cars and become utterly dependent on mechanics, tow services, and chauffeurs. I'll stick with my rack and pinion, manual transmission and the knowledge they require and the experience they engender.
Another very well said post by another forum regular. Thanks for this post, enorbet, it's *EXACTLY* what I've been seeing happening the past few years to Linux in general.
A quick and simple way to 'see' it is to go into the system settings -> themes/styles/decorations and notice all the new themes/styles/decorations that are suddenly showing up mimicking or trying to be exactly like - Winblows! Then of course, as you say, there's more and more people who call themselves IT coming from Winblows and bringing that air-wasting mentality of its (to them) usefulness in areas, and then 'informing/instructing' those with questions about how to fix a problem on their *Linux* system, with advice they use for similar 'problems' on Winblows...the two work don't work. In my opinion, it's happening a *LOT* and Linux is going to end up exactly like Winblows. Hell, look how fast everyone decided that that abortion called systemd was adopted by such a huge number of distros, and I'd bet money many of those maintainers didn't bother to look too deep at its quirks and problems and overall disposition of 'The Borg'...that might be a little extra work, and since Joe at Distro X went that way and he knows more than me even though he may have a mostly Winblows mindset, it *must* be good.
Anyway, eventually Pat will have to cave to 'The Borg', since more and more apps are demanding a system have systemd or it will not run/work, and that's when I finally put my nose to the grindstone and try to get a BSD working and learn it in the hopes that I'll live a little while longer and be able to use it knowing Winblows mindsets aren't taking it over also...I figure I can maybe keep this old bod' going to 70, heh, before I can't see a keyboard anyway or the screen hardly, lol.
In reading the posts here, I feel like I've already read Jesse Smith's review on Distrowatch without actually reading it. Certainly it's been dissected enough for me to get the gist of what the review actually said in full.
What I find refreshing about this particular review is that Jack Wallen feels no need to specifically mention that he is a veteran of Slackware; the language he has chosen to write his review makes that fact abundantly clear. Obviously, the man is an old-school Linux nerd, and it shows in his review.
In reading the posts here, I feel like I've already read Jesse Smith's review on Distrowatch without actually reading it. Certainly it's been dissected enough for me to get the gist of what the review actually said in full.
What I find refreshing about this particular review is that Jack Wallen feels no need to specifically mention that he is a veteran of Slackware; the language he has chosen to write his review makes that fact abundantly clear. Obviously, the man is an old-school Linux nerd, and it shows in his review.
Happy Slacking!
heh..
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The process for installing packages first begins with a search. The best place to start is the slackbuilds.org repository. But even then installation is tricky. Here’s what you have to do:
Locate the package to be installed on Slackbuilds.org. Download both the .gz and the .deb files.
Unpack the .gz file.
Move the .deb file into the newly created directory.
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I thought the part about Slackware still having XMMS was a good thing.
That's the root of the complaints about this particular review. There's a bunch of media players installed but that's the one that happens to be associated by default with music files in KDE. It's a perfectly good app, but the review thrashed it in a way that comes across as petty.
He's insulting XMMS, Slackware 's decision to include XMMS (along with audacious, mplayer, etc), and he's insulting the user's intelligence by suggesting that the perfect music player doesn't just need to be installed, but also configured and set as the default.
If someone doesn't like XMMS, they just right click on their MP3 -> Properties -> Open With -> Click [Change] and KDE will present them with a list of all available music apps to choose from. It will even update system config so that it uses that app going forward. The idea that the average user is too stupid to handle such a mundane task is a stretch even in the Windows world.
The reviewer did a lot of noise about using XMMS, but he forgot that Slackware has Audacious, which is way more modern. Maybe he chose not to install it when he excluded xfce ?
In modern UEFI times elilo has no serious problem not requiring an executable to enable a new kernel boot option, nor does rEFInd. Grub2 does require an executable to incorporate a new kernel unless one enables OSprober (and I see Suse inhibits it's effect now for better and for worse) so it still fits but why do I need to remain ignorant of the proper way of adding/upgrading kernels and the boot process?
That's not strictly fair. I don't like GRUB and I don't use it on my main machine, but you do need to distinguish GRUB itself from the ghastly mess of scripts that are usually packaged with it. They are necessary because most distros use incredibly complicated GRUB configurations that aren't really editable by hand. If you look at the GRUB section in LFS, you will see that it is quite possible to install GRUB "naked" and write your own simple config file. Then you can edit it as needed.
Distribution: Mainly Devuan, antiX, & Void, with Tiny Core, Fatdog, & BSD thrown in.
Posts: 5,521
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Originally Posted by FTIO
... when I finally put my nose to the grindstone and try to get a BSD working and learn it in the hopes that I'll live a little while longer and be able to use it knowing Winblows mindsets aren't taking it over also...I figure I can maybe keep this old bod' going to 70, heh, before I can't see a keyboard anyway or the screen hardly, lol.
One of the BSD are good to keep in reserve, just in case, it's what I do, if that fateful day should arrive.
Don't worry about being 70, I'm past that & can still see the keyboard & screen - plus I'm still going strong.
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