Thanks, that's good info in that I will never again buy a computer with an eMMC.

Halleluyah, that's a relief.

What does that mean specifically?

Yes please, see what you can do because I am at my wits' end.

If I manage to get the eMMC wiped fully and correctly, the OS I will install will be a UEFI installation. The only thing I then need to know, which I have not been able to understand from various discussions for other OS'es is what partitions should I definitely have.
I know I have to have root (/), that's obvious. I understand I should have a swap partition of more than the RAM size. In view of the simple use of the computer (browsing and emailing) there is no need in this case for a separate /home partition, therefore /home can be part of root. Am I right? If not what am I missing?

Ideally, I would like the distro's installation process take care of the appropriate formatting and partitioning. Isn't that easiest method with the lowest risk?

Hi,

Just a few thoughts on how I might proceed..

It would appear that your eMMC is supported by the mid - late series 4.12.x .This is what I've found written in my notes but I haven't checked any further than this.. I don't remember where I obtained this info.

You now have to decide on UEFI or MBR. MBR is older, probably better known and very stable (at least it should be!). UEFI is newer but appears to be less trusted by some.. I personally use both. I normally prefer to use UEFI on newer machines, especially where I need a larger number of primary partitions than MBR supports.. (I've never liked "extended partitions"). I also find the availability of the EFI shell to be very useful. I also find it easier to make boot flashdrives for ISO installation (e.g. selectable multiple direct ISO boot.. no need to burn the iso to the flashdrive, just copy the one or more ISOs to a fat32 flashdrive. Now manually set boot flags, copy boot and grub files and create a simple grub.cfg).

When you have found an external booting method that supports your hardware (live distro or other external bootable installation etc.) then I would completely wipe the eMMC and start from scratch.

I think that I would attempt to use UEFI/GPT but it's your hardware and your call..

A couple of questions:

I'm not familiar with AntiX Linux, Does the live boot environment have Gparted?
If so, can you give an indication of your exact partition layout??


I've just seen your last post..

Linux hardware support basically boils down to "the kernel must be aware of and be able to detect your hardware".
Once you have identified a live distro that handles your hardware (normally those with later kernel versions handle specific newer hardware better/at all) then you'll be able to wipe your eMMC and start again.

When you reach this stage, then everything should be straightforward and the distro installer should be able to handle everything..

I think that you have been unlucky with your eMMC problems.. You **will** get past this.

Bodge99

Hello Bodge99, thanks once again for your detailed reply.

What do I need to do with this?

Yes !! I will opt for UEFI since that is the computer's native system.

What do you mean by "support"? I have not seen about any distro mentioned that is described as "does or does not support eMMC", like it is never mentioned that a distro does or does not support e.g. SSD. Surely any OS supports my hardware? In any case, I would like to install Xubuntu, which is a light weight OS so should support my hardware, surely.

But that is THE problem: how to get the eMMC wiped completely? What tool can I use? GParted on a live USB does not boot.

Yes it does. That is how I was able to "wipe" the old partitions, but it did not do a proper job because when I insert a live USB with a different distro, the installation does not go through.

partition file syst. mount point label size used unused flags
/dev/mmcblk0p1 ext4 /media/rootantiX17.4.1 rootantiX17.4.1 27.09GB 3.38GB 23.71GB -
/dev/mmcblk0p2 swap - swapantiX 2GB 0 2GB -
/dev/mmcblk0p3 ext4 /media/bios-grub bios-grub 2MB 1.06MB 958KB -
unallocated unallocated - - 30GB --- --- -
Sorry this does not lign up in the rendered version. What is remarkable is that the partitions are recognised, yet the unallocated space is still shown as 30GB (eMMC size is 32GB), and both "used" and "unused" for unallocated are shown as zero (3 dashes). How that happened I have no idea.

The 1st installation of antiX was with kernel 4.19. So I don't understand this.

Ah, but that is the exact problem, I cannot reach "this stage".

for uefi you will also need a 300mb partition formatted as fat32 and flagged as esp. I don't know if it makes a difference or not but on most system setups this is the first partition on the drive.

Doesn't that get done automatically if you opt for auto install?

Hi,

O.K. I understand your frustration.. I've noticed that some folk "give up" at a much earlier stage than you have reached... kudos to you for "sticking with it". You **WILL** get there..

All hardware support in any system comes directly from the kernel.. In this particular case, the kernel has to be aware of eMMC storage in general. It also has to be aware of how your specific hardware actually accesses the chips at the lowest hardware level. There are several methods that can be used. In essence a particular controller chip (or part of a particular chipset/element of a SOC) and the specific way it talks to the storage chips has to be "known" and recognised by the kernel. This support may be directly "baked into" the kernel or may have to be specifically added as required. The latter case can be seen with some Realtek wifi chipsets.. The overall wifi support framework exists within the kernel, but sometimes the user has to compile a module and/or supply specific firmware to suit the particular hardware and kernel version.

I would say that the kernel guys do a fantastic job overall.. They will have their priorities which might result in certain hardware either not initially being supported very well or even at all. Sometimes things are delayed due to manufacturer reticence in releasing technical information.

As AntiX works on your hardware, then I think it's reasonably safe to say that kernel support is either "there" or at least can be made to work.
If full eMMC support is present for your hardware and is already in the newer kernels then it is just a question of finding out the lowest kernel version that has this support.

The easiest way of seeing if a particular distro version works on your system is to try it..

You could try Mint or Debian etc. An alternative is to perform an installation of Mint etc. to a flashdrive, update the kernel and boot from there.
If you want me to, I'll post how to make a bootable USB flashdrive for use with multiple ISO's...

Also, if you want me to, I'll have a look at AntiX to see if they've added anything directly to their kernel that might be of use.

Bodge99

Not sure, just make sure one is created during the partitioning stage if one doesn't already exist.

1 members found this post helpful.

Hi,

I'll give an example of how kernel improvements directly affect hardware. The laptop that I'm using here now is a rebadged Clevo 8th gen Intel Core i7.
Booting this from a Mint 19.0 live ISO allowed me to install the system perfectly fine. On rebooting, the Wifi didn't work, the GPU only worked at a reduced resolution and the USB ports were "flakey" to say the least.

I was half expecting this, as the hardware is "newer". Once I'd upgraded the kernel to the latest (at the time) most of the problems disappeared.
I've still got a slight video problem with the screens native resolution (1920x1080). There is a kernel option "workaround" for this which reduces the maximum power management capabilities slightly... good enough for me for now.. I expect this to be fully solved when the major Linux distros start using kernel versions 5.x .

Bodge99

Yep, the partition layout appears "borked" or at least not particularly logical.

What does a boot with Mint 19.1 show exactly??

Bodge99

It just shows /dev/sda1, which is the live USB Mint stick. In other words, unlike GParted on the antiX stick, GParted on the Mint stick does not pick up the partitions.

The tool I've been using for two decades is not FOSS, so I usually don't mention it. I don't keep track of what other tools can do. If the kernel can see the eMMC, then dd can wipe the whole device, or any portion of it, as directed according to its man page.

The lowest or highest?

I know, and have tried a number already: Mint, Peppermint, Lubuntu, Xubuntu. Somebody mentioned that, since the computer seems to like antiX, maybe its brother MX, which is more user-friendly because of its GUIs, could also work. I have not tried that yet because I did not want to confuse our discussion here since you asked for some info about my current set-up.
So, if the MX live USB reacts positively, should I go ahead and try to install it?
If your answer to that is YES, should I then 1st delete the antiX partitions with GParted on the MX stick. If your answer to this is also YES, should I then do an auto install or a manual install?

Mint installed as such, is that the same as burning its .iso image to a USB stick?

If we are taking the MX route, then this is not necessary. Besides that, I don't want you to use too much of your time for my problem.

O.K. then..

Can you try this:

Set your machine to UEFI mode. Boot from your AntiX flashdrive, run gparted and select the eMMC drive. Don't bother trying to delete any of the eMMC partitions. Now create a new partition type on the eMMC with "Device", "Create Partition Table...". Choose GPT table type and hit "Apply".

Now run the installer.. I'm not familiar with AntiX and it's install process but I'm wondering if the installer is detecting an MBR drive and then performing an MBR/legacy install (even if the machine is set to UEFI mode).

Does the installer give the choice of an EFI install here?

I'll perform a UEFI AntiX installation on Virtualbox shortly as an experiment.. It helps if we are "on the same page".. ;>)

Bodge99

MrMazda, thanks for this reply. This certainly is a powerful tool, but NOT for beginners they say, and I can well believe it. As you have gathered by now, I am a beginner.

But you mention dd as a way to wipe the drive clean, if the kernel can see the eMMC. So my questions are:
1. is there a way to check if the kernel can? When I use the live antiX USB stick, GParted on there picks up the partitions, as I mentioned to Bodge99, so that suggests the kernel can see the eMMC.
2. one way of checking that would be to execute the appropriate full wipe command from the live antiX USB. Agree?
3. what is the appropriate full wipe command?

When I launched Gparted, a message popped up saying:
I have had this message before and rebooting does not change anything, of course. When i click on "ignore" in the message box, the partitions show up.

I did that on the "unallocated" bit, and a message appeared, entitled 1 partition is currently active on device /dev/mmcblk0. Rest of message reads:

"A new partition table cannot be created when there are active partitions. Use menu options, such as unmount or swapoff, to deactivate all partitions on this device before creating a new partition table."

Questions:
1. can I do that?
2. if so, should I unmount all 3m, i.e. mmcblk0p1-3?
3. if so, will the live USB remain usable at this stage?
4. if I create that new table, should I label it, if so, as what?

Ah, during the boot I chose the EFI route. Should I redo it and choose the Legacy route, then create a GPT table?